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what defines the political spectrum???
: Most right-wingers also favor a right to sleep with whomever you want. Fundamentalist usually refers to religious views, not political views, and is not rightist. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 22:56, 4 April 2007 (EDT)
: Most right-wingers also favor a right to sleep with whomever you want. Fundamentalist usually refers to religious views, not political views, and is not rightist. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 22:56, 4 April 2007 (EDT)
==What defines the political spectrum?==
Rschlafly-- I've been trying really hard to clarify the left/right distinction here.
It really seems to me that if we claim "favoring individual liberties" is a rightist
(or leftist!) position, we are just confusing things. Favoring liberties is NOT
a position that lies anywhere on the left/right scale. Here are the points
I would propose to help keep things clear.
: (1) We should emphasize again and again that '''not all issues lie on a one-dimensional
political spectrum'''. (And in particular "favoring liberties" is one of those things
that just isn't part of the political spectrum.)
: (2) When we talk about the political spectrum, we should try to define what it is.
As far as I can tell, '''"right" usually means defending tradition; "left" usually means
challenging tradition'''. Obviously that's a really general definition, but that's the point:
if you don't make a general definition you can't clearly argue which things are left
and which things are right (and which things are off that particular spectrum).
This seems to be a good definition, because some of the main "rightist" causes
in history have been: defending a country's traditional values and religion; defending the
current system of government; joining the military to defend the country; protecting
property by arguing against redistributive taxes. Some of the main "leftist"
causes in history have been: defending people who want to do things that go against
traditional values and religion; defending minority groups that do poorly under the
current system of government; joining a revolution to challenge the current system;
advocating taxes or other mechanisms to redistribute from those who are privileged
under the current system to those who are not. I hope those descriptions don't sound
insulting either from a "rightist" or "leftist" perspective, because I'm not trying
to insult anybody or advocate one side. I'm just trying to '''clarify where the big
difference lies'''.
: (3) By the way, when I said 'freedom to sleep with whoever you want' I was using euphemisms
appropriate to a family-friendly wiki. I will be more explicit so that I can be more clear.
Very recently there were anti-sodomy laws on the books in a lot of US states; rightists/conservatives
were mostly appalled when those laws were struck down by the Supreme Court. That was a ruling in
favor of 'individual liberty' that pleased a lot of leftists
(and liberals, in the classical liberal / libertarian sense of the word).
You can like that ruling / you can hate that ruling... but we can all agree that
it was an example of a form of freedom supported more by the left than by the right?
Or for another example, [[The Economist]] has often advocated legalizing drugs.
Most people on the "right" think that's a terrible idea; as far as I can tell most people
on the "left" also think it's a terrible idea. So that's another example of a form of freedom
that lies nowhere on the "political spectrum" (again, it's "liberal", but only in the
classical liberal / libertarian sense).
: (4) So I also think we should use the word "liberal" less often, because it's an
extremely confusing word. The original meaning was favoring freedoms; political
theorists still use the word that way. But it's often used in the US to mean "left",
and it's often used in Europe and much of the rest of the world to mean "right".
Of course, if we only want Americans to understand what we say here, then it doesn't
matter. But since this site is published on the web where a lot of people in other countries
are going to read it, '''we should use the word "leftist" when
we mean people who challenge traditional institutions and values'''. If we (rarely) use
the word "liberal", we should be clear about whether we really mean "leftist",
or whether we really mean "classical liberal / libertarian".
: (5) The word "conservative" is less of a problem, because if we use the word
"rightist" to mean "defending traditional institutions and values", then that
seems pretty close to what people mean by "conservative". I hope most people who
love Conservapedia would agree with that definition... and I hope most people who
hate Conservapedia would agree with that definition.
So if you are going to change the definitions I've put on the "leftist" page and the "rightist"
page, please take into consideration the points I just made. If you disagree with my definition
of what's the defining characteristic of the political spectrum, please provide a better
definition and explain why. And in particular, if you think "freedom" lies on one side of the
political spectrum, try to explain what you think the political spectrum is, and why this
implies that "freedom" is on one side of that spectrum. --[[User:Redblue|Redblue]] 05:27, 9 April 2007 (EDT)