Talk:Remarkable Jews

This entry violates the Conservapedia Commandments. For example, it is non-encyclopedic and non-educational. One might falsely infer that Jewish people not on the list are somehow not remarkable. This site moves beyond ethnicity but this entry seems headed in the opposite direction.

Though I appreciate many of Joaquin's contributions to this site, I must recommend the deletion of this entry for the above reasons, while welcoming praise based on merit for any individuals listed here. Comments are welcome before I delete this.--Andy Schlafly 20:58, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

Perhaps it should be a category rather than an article.HectorJ 21:05, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

Even that would still go against the race-blind approach of this site. Ideas are what matter here, not ethnicity.--Andy Schlafly 21:19, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

Agreed. I'm new here and I don't want to come across as argumentative, but I think the entry could still have value as a reference tool from a strictly educational standpoint. Perhaps the adjective "remarkable" could be replaced with something more suitable and the information compiled here could still be retained as a category.HectorJ 21:36, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

I don't see any educational value. I can't recall any teacher or textbook ever explaining someone's ethnicity, and don't see what educational value such information would have.--Andy Schlafly 21:49, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

Second. JacobB 22:41, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

Third. While it might be educational to have a list of famous members of the Jewish state, organization by ethnicity doesn't seem right. DouglasA 22:53, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

The Jewish nation is much more than Israel; it is present in many countries. Remarkable Jews are members of this wide nation living in different places. Remarkable Jews' article is beyond any ethnicity. --Joaquín Martínez 03:52, 29 March 2010 (EDT)

Then perhaps we should name an article famous or notable Israelis? And I am sorry this page was deleted, Joaquín my friend, I left it on purpose to continue this discussion, if need be, and never asked anyone to delete it. I am sure they were just cleaning up, not understanding what was going on here. --ṬK_/Admin^/Talk 06:31, 29 March 2010 (EDT)

Thank you so much for your explanation. I agree that may be "famous" or "notable" could be better that "remarkable" or, may be, some other name; but Israelis exclude all other members of the Jewish nation that live in many other countries; like calling "Israeli" philosophy to "Jewish philosophy". --Joaquín Martínez 09:40, 29 March 2010 (EDT)

And what of the "Catholic Nation" or "Christian Nation"? Not all Hebrews are religious or even Jewish, practice Judaism, so what constitutes this "nation"? I am just thinking aloud here, Joaquín trying to see how far this would go, and fit it into our dictum about not singling-out people because of their ethnicity and/or religion. --ṬK_/Admin^/Talk 18:13, 29 March 2010 (EDT)

Let see what the experts say:

The traditional explanation, and the one given in the Torah, is that the Jews are a nation. The Hebrew word, believe it or not, is "goy." The Torah and the rabbis used this term not in the modern sense meaning a territorial and political entity, but in the ancient sense meaning a group of people with a common history, a common destiny, and a sense that we are all connected to each other. [1]

Graetz, the great historian of the Jews, whose monumental work is one of the standard authorities, says that the history of the Jews, even since they lost the Jewish State, “still possesses a national character; it is by no means merely a creed or church history. * * * Our history is far from being a mere chronicle of literary events or church history... .”

and Moses Hess in "Rome and Jerusalem":

In reality, Judaism as a nationality has a natural basis which cannot be set aside by mere conversion to another faith... The solution of the problem, however, consists in the fact that the Jews are something more than mere ‘followers of a religion,’ namely, they are a race brotherhood, a nation. [2]

--Joaquín Martínez 22:07, 29 March 2010 (EDT)

If that's the definition of "Jews", then a vast majority of the Jewish people on the list simply wouldn't count if they didn't feel a "common destiny," sense of connection, or decided they were part of a larger nation. And yet I'm still confused whether the term is supposed to be applying to a nation, ethnicity, or religion. It seems to used with just little enough clarity to ever be pinned down. DouglasA 01:52, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

You could be less confused if you see: American Jewish Women; there, you will find mentioned "current Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg" as many other distinguish American Jewish Women; there are plenty of Jews cultural entries available in that site and in the web that consider Judaism a nation, a family, an ethnoreligious and cultural group. In this matter there is not a clear and indisputable definition but valuable information is saved and guarded as it should happen in our case, specially if the information is well supported. See: Who is a Jew?--Joaquín Martínez 10:29, 30 March 2010 (EDT)