Talk:Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now
Some strange reason, references does not show up. --Jpatt 22:17, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
I'm not sure why we're getting so up in arms about this. It has little to no bearing on the actual election...they tried to register Mickey Mouse for crying out loud! Did ACORN actually think they might get away with it? Perhaps more disconcerting: Did we? I'll admit it isn't exactly upholding the moral code of this wonderful nation, but I don't think it was a serious ploy to create an army of voters that didn't exist for Sen. Obama. Acwellman 23:19, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
Hey, I removed a few sentences (regardless of whether or not anecdotal evidence supports them) from the above because they are not properly cited. They seemed to reflect opinion, not fact. Acwellman 23:22, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
OK People
Here's the thing, DRamon. First of all, the way the sentence reads, it certainly implies that Obama won the election because of ACORN[Citation Needed]. If that's not what you are alleging, then change the sentence. If that is what you wanted to imply, then find a reference that claims 7.8 million votes were fake.
Secondly, you are claiming that you don't need a citation because the evidence is given in the rest of the article, but it's not. You are claiming that there were fradulant votes for Obama, and the article supplies evidence that there were fraudulant registrations. You claim that if there were fake registrations there must have been fake votes, but that's not necessarily true. There is a huge jump between people putting down "Mickey Mouse" on a form so that their boss pays them 50 cents extra, and actually faking a "Mickey Mouse" ID and having someone vote. I don't know how it is where you live, but in Ohio, it's pretty hard to fake a vote without a much larger conspiracy. If there is a conspiracy, there should be some evidence of it. This evidence goes into the fact tag which I am about to put back in. HelpJazz 11:52, 6 November 2008 (EST)
- the thing is, nobody would know if a fraudulent vote was made, since it would be counted. Any time there's news about fraudulent registration (not voter fraud), the report originally came from ACORN itself... otherwise nobody, not even the GOP, would know and complain about it. See this. Everything you heard about registration fraud has been reported, caught, and dealt with by ACORN already. These things are caught by voter registration elections offices and tossed out. Even then, these fake registered voters have to actually show up at a poll and present an ID and vote to actually pull off fraud. Then, if caught, its a felony with some huge consequence that nobody is willing to risk voting twice for...
- Also, by the same logic, we can say that the GOP folks who were arrested for fraudulent registration contributed to McCain's campaign, so you should add that to the statement too. xP Ema 12:04, 6 November 2008 (EST)
- HelpJazz, your statement is plumb wrong. DRamon's sentence implies nothing of the sort. For once, a 'fact' tag has been correctly applied to your words. Bugler 12:06, 6 November 2008 (EST)
- If that's not what you are alleging, then change the sentence. It's not what he's alleging. He has no reason to change the sentence - why don't you learn to read properly? Bugler 12:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)
- Bugler, your comments are simply assertions which you can't prove and provide no imput to the discussion. How about instead of attacking me in some sad attempt to get me to leave the site and go back into my cesspit, you respond to the argument at hand. Whether or not he actually meant that ACORN won the election or ACORN supplied one vote in the election is inconsequential to the need for a citation, it just speaks to what the citation actually needs to say. HelpJazz 12:15, 6 November 2008 (EST)
- Someone needs a 2 day block to calm down and stop flinging imprecations... XD!!!
- if you're going to leave it there without citations, at least add that it aided McCain's campaign too... its not like they collected ONLY Obama votes... so obviously, logic dictates it helped McCain too! xD Ema 12:20, 6 November 2008 (EST)
- Bugler, your comments are simply assertions which you can't prove and provide no imput to the discussion. How about instead of attacking me in some sad attempt to get me to leave the site and go back into my cesspit, you respond to the argument at hand. Whether or not he actually meant that ACORN won the election or ACORN supplied one vote in the election is inconsequential to the need for a citation, it just speaks to what the citation actually needs to say. HelpJazz 12:15, 6 November 2008 (EST)
- If that's not what you are alleging, then change the sentence. It's not what he's alleging. He has no reason to change the sentence - why don't you learn to read properly? Bugler 12:09, 6 November 2008 (EST)
- HelpJazz, your statement is plumb wrong. DRamon's sentence implies nothing of the sort. For once, a 'fact' tag has been correctly applied to your words. Bugler 12:06, 6 November 2008 (EST)