Difference between revisions of "Debate:Is illegal immigration control the answer to illegal immigration?"

Revision as of 17:13, June 22, 2007

Yes

Is one civilization responsible for the well being of another civilization? Is an influx of uneducated people into your country beneficial to your country?

In my humble opinion, in terms of whats best for the country, I would say no to both questions.

Seekcommon has made a number of interesting points, but he/she is simply wrong. The FBI arrested several men who were plotting to kill american soldiers, many were illegal and in the US for several years. It is imperative that the FEDS go all out to round up all illegals and deport them to whereever they came from. What the heck, they have broken the law anyway and contribute nothing to this society of law abiding and God fearing citizens. User:dninsafbicia

No

Legal immigration control is the answer to illegal immigration. That way people will know what is legal and illegal. Legal=civility while illegal=jail time.--Roopilots6 12:40, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

I agree. It is time that the White man who killed the original inhabitants of the country we call the US of A should leave. Christopher Columbus thought he had reached India when he did not and he allowed for the killings that followed. More recently, so many Irish came to the US, many illegally, we should demand proof that they are here legally. Every one who was not born of parents who were not here on this land originally ought to be asked to demand proof that they belong here and are not here illegally. Great idea. User:Seekcommon

Well, that is what is called racism. It has nothing to do with immigrating from one sovereign country to another in a legal means by todays standards of civilization. But let us go farther back in time when succesive waves of people "immigrated" to the Americas. Each one killing their way across the continents until they became the dominant culture. If you can go back far enough to find the first person to inhabit the Americas then it won't mean nothing since they probably no longer exist. But their ancestors weren't originally born here either if you go back far enough. So how about putting a clamp on the racism?--Roopilots6 09:25, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

I see "racism" in the current vitriol being thrown at "illegal" immigration, yes, "illegal". The fact is that, "illegal" immigration happens because we have a flawed/inhumane "legal" immigration policy. Today's immigrants (legal and illegal) are very different from the ones that came in the early 20th century/late 19th century. The fact is that without the illegals, much of our economy will crawl. Using the pretext of "illegal" immigration, demagogues like Lou Dobbs of CNN unload on "legal" immigration - issues of H-1 visas for technical people and such - claiming that "such immigrants" take jobs away from "natives". Rubbish, says that most radical of all newspapers, The Wall Street Journal. [[User:Seekcommon] PS - My comments about the white man and such were, obviously meant to make a point that we are ALL immigrants and many came illegally. Inspite of all this, I have always believed that of ALL countries in the world, the US of A remains the most humane and welcoming of ALL foreigners, immigrants - Let's keep it that way, is what I hope we do. User:Seekcommon

No, illegal immigrants aren't "helping" the economy. The exploitation of illegal immigrants is the slave mentality. Just as on the cotton plantations of the 19th century, today we have the idea of businesses exploiting illegal immigrants for their own profit. You are right about the existance of flawed policy. That we have sanctuary cities and towns that protect criminal business practices who exploit cheap labor. All about the money, right? They don't lose their business or go to jail even if their under paid workers are rounded up and deported. There are always plenty of American citizens in line to replace them. But if you were given the choice of paying someone five bucks an hour or fifteen bucks then the decision is simple. I've also noticed that only those that don't see a problem with the illegal exploitation of illegal aliens are always screaming about racism. The flawed/inhumane legal immigration policy of the United States allows the "legal" immigration of more people then any other country on the planet. Perhaps the real answer to illegal immigration would be throwing American Citizens in jail for the inhumane monetary exploitation of their fellow human beings. Until that happens, people will immigrate illegally to work as cheap labor.--Roopilots6 15:58, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

The fundamental reason our country, the US of A is a magnet for the rest of the world is the simple fact that each person has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. By any measure, we have benefited enormously by both legal AND illegal immigration, I know you disagree. Fine. The workers who are "exploited" are still better off than they would have been in their own country (yes, that includes legal AND illegal immigrants). In fact what is happening is that because the world is slowly trying to catch up to the US and as more opportunities are made available to people in those countries, there is less and less interest and pressure for many to emigrate from their native lands and immigrate to the US - these trends are evident in Higher Education, for sure. Unlike other countries, we are dynamic - people who are laid off, do find other ways to survive/thrive. Yes, many are hurt irreversibly and never recover. No system is perfect, what we have in the US comes close. Adam Smith explained it best - supply and demand. It is OUR demand for goods/services and OUR refusal to pay any more than what we WANT to pay that results in producers trying to find ways to reduce their costs and OUR costs. Yes, the producers DO MAKE money by using cheap labor, but millions of people do have jobs and do very well. No matter what I say or write (or what the Wall Street Journal writes), you will hold steadfast to your view that "illegal" immigration hurts us all and does not help the economy. I disagree. You can make a difference. Stop shopping at Walmart, do not buy a car or a computer or a shirt or a pant that is NOT made in the US A and before you buy anything, ask if the people who made them were paid a "decent wage" and were "not exploited" or whatever. User:Seekcommon

Apparently illegal border crossings have slowed by more than 10% this year according to a report cited by the Wall Street Journal, today May 2, 2007. But instead of rigorous enforcement as many would have us believe, this reflects supply and demand, again according to the Wall Street Journal. The slump in the housing market is cited as the main reason as to why fewer illegals are crossing the border and it indicates, again as the Wall Street Journal reports, that immigrants come here to work and not idle and collect welfare. I should add they work and improve OUR standard of living while accepting jobs that go abegging. Many on our unemployed rolls are unwilling to take these jobs or perhaps do not even have those skills necessary or simply refuse because they can and sit and complain about illegal immigration or something else. I'd recommend that they complain to the Wall Street Journal and tell them that the Journal is being unpatriotic and UnAmerican. User:Seekcommon

I seem to have some difficulty in providing a link to any interested reader. The article is at online.wsj.com/article/SB117807233027389126.html

I suppose I see immoral behavior anywhere when it comes to immigrants and their current status in the US (particularly Mexican, Chinese, Korean or other non-caucasian, non-white). Even for a litigious society like the US, this surely takes first prize - the story of a Judge that sues a dry cleaner for 65 million dollars - taking it out on immigrants who have done good I suppose. [www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/25/AR2007042502763_pf.html Here is the article by Marc Fisher] I am curious as to what the position (if any) of the conservatives on this board about whether of not the law suit has any merit. And why there has been no significant outcry - Could it be because the affected party is not white or black? Where is Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton when working people like the Cheungs are being victimized by the system? Or does it have to do something about the race and color of the affected parties and the one that is doing the suing? No, I do not know if the Most Eminent Judge Pearson is black or white - BUT I can guess He is black since nary a word from Jackson or Sharpton. Replace black with "African American" if it offends and I am aware that certain words are to be used only by certain people at certain times under certain conditions after getting permission from Jackson and Sharpton. User:Seekcommon

The Most Honorable Judge Pearson is an African American, there was a video. Now it makes perfect sense as to why Jackson and Sharpton are not protecting the cleaners against this blatant racist, anti-immigrant fervor of an officer of the Court in these United States of America - after all, he is one of them and so cannot be bad. Shame on the establishment for allowing such obvious attempts at persecuting hard working immigrants. I can only imagine the treatment meted out to the poor illegals that cross the border to find work and take jobs that others refuse to take User:Seekcommon

British point of view

So far this debate has been US-centred, but we have immigration problems of a different kind in the United Kingdom. Let me say that I believe, in principle, in the value of immigrants to a society, both economically and socially. But our problem is that our country's immigration policies are inadequately enforced by an incompetent bureaucracy. At present, people may be living in the UK and waiting for up to 5 years before the Home Office processes their application for indefinite leave to remain, or for asylum status. They're in a sort of limbo - they don't have the proper documentation, so they find it hard to get a job, so they can't contribute to society. This isn't the immigrants' fault - it's the incompetence of our Labour government, who have simply failed in their duty to provide a system that works. Not to mention, we're now getting mass immigration from Eastern Europe due to those countries joining the European Union. This isn't a bad thing in itself, but we've had a few cases of people with criminal records entering the UK - and our immigration services don't even bother to check their background before letting them in. Once again, the Labour government failed to plan for the future. What a dismal record of failure. Palace1 13:13, 22 June 2007 (EDT)