Talk:Luke 1-8 (Translated)
Luke 2:1 -- απογραφεσθαι
απογραφεσθαι can mean either a tax or a census. From the writings of Josephus, it appears that this απογραφεσθαι caused an uprising in Judea, which implies taxation (why would a census cause protests?), so I have translated here as taxation.
But so many sources translate this word as a census, so does anybody know of a reason for this? If so, let me know here and we can discuss and possibly change it. JacobB 18:54, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
Luke 3:1
In this particular instances, as weird as the word is to us today, each of the men identified including Herod Antipas is τετρααρχοῦντος - tetrarch. A tetrarch was one who ruled over 1/4 of the empire and was subordinate only to the emperor. King gets used frequently incorrectly used to refer to Herod Antipas in translating this term, but he was not a king and Judea was not a kingdom. I am using the word governor instead of king, which isn't controversial when used for Pilate, who had exactly the same role as Herod Antipas - he was tetrarch of Judea. But perhaps there is a better word than both governor or king. Cambrian 22:25, 28 October 2009 (EDT)
Chapter 3 Verse 12
Master is the original, Teacher is the modern version. Jesus asked his disciples "Who do they say I am?" I am thinking the replacement should be "Rabbi" (a respected authority) or "Great Prophet" (some say Elijah, some say John the Baptist). --Jpatt 12:38, 30 October 2009 (EDT)
- The Greek is 'didaskale' (teacher, instructor). KJV uses 'master' (a very common term for a teacher pre 20th century). I like the old-fashioned 'master', but I think 'teacher' is better understood these days. I think 'Rabbi' is diverging a little from the original word, and 'Great Prophet' is simply not what the original text says *and* breaks the relationship described between Jesus as teacher and his disciples/students. AdeleM 17:37, 6 November 2009 (EST)
- Teacher has different connotations today, as in tenured (and very liberal) public school officials or professors. It may work in some contexts, but I doubt all. Perhaps additional words should be considered: "Sir", "Boss", "Mister", "Coach", others?--Andy Schlafly 18:34, 6 November 2009 (EST)
- "Mentor" is the most accurate that comes off the top of my head. Perhaps even "guide" or something along those lines? -- Jeffrey W. LauttamusDiscussion 18:39, 6 November 2009 (EST)
- I see where you're coming from, but I'm not too comfortable with with using words that are further from the original Greek-- teacher may not be perfect, and it may come with some baggage, but it's still the best fit for 'didaskale'. AdeleM 22:25, 6 November 2009 (EST)
- Mentor is a very good idea. But it's not used much as a salutation or title, is it?--Andy Schlafly 18:57, 6 November 2009 (EST)
- I don't think it's used much as a title, but I think in the context it would work. Some examples:
- "Tax collectors asked to be baptized, saying, 'Mentor, what should we do?'"
- "And His students awoke Jesus, saying, 'Mentor, we will drown.'"
- "...and Peter said 'Mentor, the crowd is thick, and presses against you...'"
- 19:09, 6 November 2009 (EST)
- I think you're right that "Mentor" does work in many contexts. Great idea!
- One basic translational point is that I don't think the same word should be translated the same way in all uses. I think most would agree, yet it is easy to find superficial criticisms of translating the same Greek word differently in different places. It is a weakness of the word-for-word translations of the NASB and ESV to try to avoid that (baseless) criticism.--Andy Schlafly 19:17, 6 November 2009 (EST)
(unindent)I think that along with word translation comes translation of the context that word was used in. "Mentor" may be a good translation in some areas, but perhaps in others a more formal, subservient "Sir" or "Master" would be in order. I'm not very well-versed in Biblical translation, but I would be more than happy to assist in minute details like this! -- Jeffrey W. LauttamusDiscussion 19:24, 6 November 2009 (EST)
Gender-Neutral Language
While I'm all for retaining gender-specific language where it exists in the original text, I feel that there are some assumptions being made here that don't really reflect that. In 3:4, for example, the Greek Bible makes it a 'voice in the wilderness', *not* specifically a man's voice. AdeleM 23:06, 6 November 2009 (EST)
- Good point. Where are you on the expression "sons of God"? All modern versions change that to "children of God," presumably to gender-neutralize it (degender -- a new Conservapedia word?). But "children of God" has a very, very different meaning from the Greek and from "sons of God." "Children of God" means less accountability, less responsibility, and lower expectations than what the Greek indicates.--Andy Schlafly 13:58, 7 November 2009 (EST)