Difference between revisions of "Talk:Hollywood values"

Revision as of 19:34, February 18, 2008

This obviously needs more stuff, but I stub'd it so the red link on the main page went away.-MexMax 22:58, 22 January 2008 (EST)

Unlike reality, which clearly has none of these things. Perhaps a random use of the word "glamourization" is in order? Barikada 00:01, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Barikada, I think that's a central point! It's not only disrespect for morals, it's flagrant glamorization of lack of morals! I'll leave it to you to add it, but good call.-MexMax 19:59, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Thanks. Barikada 20:11, 23 January 2008 (EST)

MexMax - please stop reinserting the unsubstantiated information into the article. Thank you. Misterlinx 23:23, 24 January 2008 (EST)

MexMax - any and all talk of whether Heath Ledger's death was due to 'Hollywood Values' should be left until AFTER the autopsy and inquest have been published. Mr. Schalfly's previous version of the article was based on a celebrity gossip article, and has been superceded by real information from the police. Misterlinx 23:40, 24 January 2008 (EST)

I'm sorry for jumping the gun. That seems truthful, I apologize for reverting without looking closer. I thought we were just doing the same edit war over and over again...MexMax 23:46, 24 January 2008 (EST)

One point: I think the MTV article should be treated as, errr, second best. Is there a better citation? I think we'd rather not cite to MTV unless we have no other chance.MexMax 23:47, 24 January 2008 (EST)

Possible Inclusions

A few suggestions for the list, off the top of my head: Marilyn Monroe would be a prime (and notorious) example. Chris Farley, who's stated goal was to live and die like Belushi. Janis Joplin. Anna Nicole Smith. Freddie Prinze. Rock Hudson. And depending on how comprehensive you want the list to be, there's an almost endless parade of people who were more famous as part of a group than as individuals, such as Keith Moon or Dennis Wilson.--RossC 08:16, 25 January 2008 (EST)

I did a search for Hollywood liberals and came up with this website. On the front page I see that the cops are invertviewing Mary Kate Olsen about the suspicious circumstances in Ledger's death, David Copperfield has had two childred out of wedlock, Britney Spears is finally making it to her custody hearing to see if she can stay off drugs long enough to take care of her own kids, and Kiefer Sutherland is being let out of jail after a DUI charge. Hollywood values at their best! (Or should I say worst?) HelpJazz 10:13, 25 January 2008 (EST)

If an MTV reference is frowned upon, I can hardly see a credible argument for references to The National Enquirer? It's not exactly known for its adherence to fact-based logic, is it? Misterlinx 12:29, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Why not? I bet they had articles on every one of the people we have in the article right now. HelpJazz 11:21, 26 January 2008 (EST)

There's a reason that tabloids are also known as "Gossip rags." Barikada 22:36, 26 January 2008 (EST)

The people putting these lists together do not seem to realize that in making a case linking "Hollywood values"--not coherently defined in the article, by the way--to early death or criminality it is not enough simply to cite examples; it needs to be demonstrated that these alleged consequences are more likely to occur to those who adopt these values than to the general population. Dadsnagem2 11:19, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Heath Ledger

How did Hollywood values contribute to his death? TheGuy 04:49, 1 February 2008 (EST)

It is clear upon reviewing this and this that nobody has justified how Hollywood values contributed to Ledger's death. We all acknowledge that during his life he probably did take drugs and was a selfish individual, however there is no evidence that his overdose on legal prescription drugs was a suicide attempt or reasonably affected by his drug habit. Given that the example is used in the context of death ("Hollywood values are deadly. Some examples include:") then I think it would be prudent to remove Ledger's entry until sufficient evidence connecting Hollywood to his death has been found, otherwise we are just sponsoring gossip. TheGuy 07:22, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Of what significance is it that he was found naked in his bed? Dadsnagem2 11:20, 7 February 2008 (EST)

So?

So? What does this article intend to prove? What is its thesis? Is this article intended to somehow connect the unfortunate deaths of some people who got too involved in drugs or alcohol as an indicator that hollywood films are a bad influence? Is this article supposed to somehow connect these so-called "Hollywood Values" with liberal politics? Last time I checked, Rush Limbaugh had had an embarrassing addiction to opiate painkillers, George W. Bush had admitted to a cocaine problem, and Mel Gibson had such a drinking problem that he was accusing "the Jews" of all the evils that had ever plagued him. These three men, for example, are CONSERVATIVES. Mel Gibson even functions as part of the industry centered in HOLLYWOOD. Why is good ol' Mel not mentioned in this article? Is the anti-liberal bias in this article too overwhelming to include even one conservative who's had problems? Or, as I suspect, is Conservapedia wearing the type of blinders that see any conservative's troubles with drugs or alcohol as a momentary temptation by the liberal side?

If you simply blame everything on your opponents, all the time, then you never have to think it through or acknowledge reality. Seems to be the basic M.O. here.

I, for one, fail to see how Heath Ledger's accidental death from combining the wrong medications (all of which seem to have been prescribed for him) as indicative of a "Hollywood Value" system. Well, I'm sure the response will go like this: "He was NAKED! Surely, nakedness is indicative of SOME evil-doing. After all, LIBERALS SLEEP NAKED! No God-fearing person should sleep sans pajamas!"

I'm disgusted.

Artiefisk 14:34, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Not entirely accurate

This article doesn't really give an accurate definition of the phrase, 'Hollywood Values'. I don't really blame you, as it is very difficult, if not impossible, to accurately define it. I also made this point on the 'Liberal Denial' Talk Page, so I'll just copy the relevant part of what I said here:

This phrase means different things to different people. Simply Googling the phrase gives many different meanings. To some, 'Hollywood values' means exactly what Conservapedia says it means. To others, it is summarised as, 'Save a tree, kill a baby. Ban cigarettes, legalize pot. Screw the Iraqi’s, save Darfur. McCarthy is bad, Castro is good. Bush is Hitler, Che is a hero. Save the planet, live in a mansion.' To still others, it means being very egotistical, not very well grounded in reality, and not having a lot of common sense. To yet others, it's all about doing anything at all, as long as you're paid enough. And, by far, that is not a complete list of the various different things this phrase actually means to various different people. Urushnor 14:48, 13 February 2008 (EST)

It should also be noted that the meaning of 'Hollywood Values', according to some, is directly contradicted by what others mean by 'Hollywood Values'. Urushnor 14:50, 13 February 2008 (EST)

Wikilinks

Why are all these actors, singers, etc. wikilinked? Do we plan to have articles on them all? I removed most of them at some point, but I see they were added back. HelpJazz 13:26, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Crime

For the crime section, please stick to actual crimes. Maybe there could be another section for offensive comments. RSchlafly 14:48, 16 February 2008 (EST)

TBH Roger, I think the linked Mel Gibson article covers it sufficiently, so - in Gibson's case at least - there's probably no need to mention it in the article at all. But perhaps you're right that there should be a section for those celebs who have demonstrated consistent/repeated immoral behaviour/outbursts but have stopped short of actually breaking the law. 10px Fox (talk|contribs) 14:59, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Hollywood

Why are musicians and athletes included in an article about Hollywood? Maestro 14:34, 18 February 2008 (EST)