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Talk:Biblical scientific foreknowledge (view source)
Revision as of 23:08, March 11, 2016
, 23:08, March 11, 2016→Mark 4:38-41: a start...
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--[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] ([[User talk:AugustO|talk]]) 19:39, 10 March 2016 (EST)
--[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] ([[User talk:AugustO|talk]]) 19:39, 10 March 2016 (EST)
===Mark 4:38-41===
In the following, I'm using ''context'' and ''grammar'', so this paragraph can be a little bit taxing for someone with a very limited attention span. Please, nevertheless, try to read it carefully - instead of just skimming it...
The verb <span style="color:red">λέγω</span> is not only used in in Mark 4:39, but in each of the verses 4:38 - 4:41. Let's have a look at these verses:
*Mark 4:38
<span style="color:orange">καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν ἐν τῇ πρύμνῃ ἐπὶ τὸ προσκεφάλαιον καθεύδων· καὶ ἐγείρουσιν αὐτὸν καὶ <span style="color:red">λέγουσιν</span> αὐτῷ</span> <span style="color:lightblue"><span style="color:darkblue">Διδάσκαλε</span>, οὐ μέλει σοι ὅτι <span style="color:blue">ἀπολλύμεθα;</span></span>
There is the main text (orange/red), written in the third person as seen by a narrator. Here we find <span style="color:red">λέγουσιν</span>, "(they) say". How do we know that they - i.e., the disciples - say something, and not only think it? Well, this part is followed by direct speech (blue). The most obvious indicator for this switch is <span style="color:darkblue">Διδάσκαλε</span>, unambiguously the vocative (masculine, singular) of διδάσκαλος, ου, ὁ "teacher". The vocative is used to address someone directly, not to think about someone. Another indicator for direct speech is the verb <span style="color:blue">ἀπολλύμεθα;</span>. It's in the first person plural, so the perspective has changed. Above the absence of quotation marks in Koine Greek was mentioned - Greek writers used techniques like those which I just talked about to show the difference between the main text and direct speech...
*Mark 4:40
<span style="color:orange">καὶ <span style="color:red">εἶπεν</span> αὐτοῖς</span> <span style="color:lightblue">Τί δειλοί <span style="color:blue">ἐστε</span>; οὔπω <span style="color:blue">ἔχετε</span> πίστιν;</span>
<span style="color:red">εἶπεν</span> (the same form of <span style="color:red">λέγω</span> as in Mark 4:39...) is the verb in the main text (red/orange): "He said". Again, there is no doubt that here something is ''said'' and not just ''thought'', as again, direct speech (blue) is following, indicated by Τί, which is used as a question word, and the change of person and grammatical number of the verbs <span style="color:blue">ἐστε</span> and <span style="color:blue">ἔχετε</span>.
But now for
*Mark 4:39
<span style="color:orange">καὶ διεγερθεὶς ἐπετίμησεν τῷ ἀνέμῳ καὶ <span style="color:red">εἶπεν</span> τῇ θαλάσσῃ <span style="color:lightblue">Σιώπα, πεφίμωσο.</span> <span style="color:orange">καὶ ἐκόπασεν ὁ ἄνεμος, καὶ ἐγένετο γαλήνη μεγάλη.</span>
Here, the main text (written in aorist, a kind of past tense, encloses <span style="color:lightblue">Σιώπα, πεφίμωσο.</span>. As in the following verse, <span style="color:red">εἶπεν</span> is used: "He said". Or could it really mean "he observed [silently]"? Well, <span style="color:lightblue">Σιώπα, πεφίμωσο.</span> again shows a change of tense to indicate direct speech. As such, both verbs can best be seen as imperatives, i.e., direct commands.
It is preposterous to assume that the same construction (someone says to someone: "direct speech") was used in four consecutive verses, and just in one verse it isn't meant to represent spoken words. OTOH, it doesn't make sense to translate <span style="color:red">λέγω</span> as "to observe [silently]" in any of the other three verses. In other words, Mark wrote "they said" - "he said" - "he said" - "they said", and not "they said" - "he observed" - "he said" - "they said" - the latter would not only have been confusing, but deliberately misleading.
But perhaps, Mark got it wrong - as ''he wasn't there'' (do you really want to open this can of worms?) That doesn't give you the liberty to change his text into a version of which you think that it is nearer to the actual truth! That may be, but then it isn't the Gospel according to Marks any longer, it is just "The Word of God How it should be according to Andrew Schlafly"....
--[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] ([[User talk:AugustO|talk]]) 18:08, 11 March 2016 (EST)