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Morgan Phillips obviously has a right to his own opinion, but I don't buy his view that Methodism contributed more to British socialism than Marx did [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Labour_Party&curid=15138&diff=1295191&oldid=1239159]. First off, the Labour Party was formed in 1900, right at the same time that socialism (Marx's forerunner to communism) was taking root in all the west. Other countries had labor or socialist parties springing up at the same time. Also, unbiblical [[theological liberalism]] was popular among Protestants during this time (a major departure from Church fathers such as Wesley, who actually was politically conservative, even by 18th Century standards). --[[User:1990'sguy|1990'sguy]] ([[User talk:1990'sguy|talk]]) 22:45, 20 December 2016 (EST)

Morgan Phillips obviously has a right to his own opinion, but I don't buy his view that Methodism contributed more to British socialism than Marx did [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Labour_Party&curid=15138&diff=1295191&oldid=1239159]. First off, the Labour Party was formed in 1900, right at the same time that socialism (Marx's forerunner to communism) was taking root in all the west. Other countries had labor or socialist parties springing up at the same time. Also, unbiblical [[theological liberalism]] was popular among Protestants during this time (a major departure from Church fathers such as Wesley, who actually was politically conservative, even by 18th Century standards). --[[User:1990'sguy|1990'sguy]] ([[User talk:1990'sguy|talk]]) 22:45, 20 December 2016 (EST)

:I'm not surprised someone objected to that, but I didn't think it would be so fast.  The big problem is that socialism has been cowed into the Marxist camp.  Christian socialism is specifically cited as an early influence in [https://archive.org/details/cu31924002405599 The History of the Fabian Society], by Edward Pease.(1916)  The Fabian Society was founded in 1884.

:Generally, the big problem is that socialism has been cowed into the Marxist camp while Christian socialism and its influence has been ignored.  Christian socialism is specifically cited as an early influence in [https://archive.org/details/cu31924002405599 The History of the Fabian Society], by Edward Pease.(1916)  The Fabian Society was founded in 1884.

:I did not scratch my head in general at the quote, only that Phillips cited Methodism.  Kingsley, Ludlow, and Maurice(early Christian socialists in the 1850s) were all of the Church of England, not Methodists.  I'm not well versed enough in British Christian socialism to cite for you chapter and verse the timeline about how the Christian socialist movement moved from the Church of England and expanded into to the Methodist church, and from there to the Fabians and then to Labour.  What I do know is that Phillips is not alone in his contention, in general.  Pease, cited above.  Also, the first leader of the Labour party, Kier Hardie, had this to say, that socialism in his view was "the embodiment of Christianity in our industrial system".  Hardie also was the leader of the ILP, a Christian socialist political party.

:I did not scratch my head at the quote considering the deep influence of Christian socialism, only that Phillips cited Methodism.  Kingsley, Ludlow, and Maurice(early Christian socialists in the 1850s) were all of the Church of England, not Methodists.  I'm not well versed enough in British Christian socialism to cite for you chapter and verse the timeline about how the Christian socialist movement moved from the Church of England and expanded into to the Methodist church, and from there to the Fabians and then to Labour.  What I do know is that Phillips is not alone in his contention.  There is Pease, cited above.  Also, the first leader of the Labour party, Kier Hardie, had this to say, that socialism in his view was "the embodiment of Christianity in our industrial system".  Hardie also was the leader of the ILP, a Christian socialist political party.

:One last thing of note.  The Fellowship of the New Life, which was where the Fabian Society was born, was highly influenced by the Leo Tolstoy, a Christian socialist.(Some would say Christian anarchist, but in this context the difference is lacking a distinction)  The point being, I have little doubt that it's accurate.  Keep in mind, that when he says "Methodism" he clearly, absolutely, only means the '''''Christian socialist''''' portions of Methodism and not all of Methodism.

:One last thing of note.  The Fellowship of the New Life, which was where the Fabian Society was born, was highly influenced by the Leo Tolstoy, a Christian socialist.(Some would say Christian anarchist, but in this context the difference is lacking a distinction)  The point being, I have little doubt that it's accurate.  Keep in mind, that when he says "Methodism" he clearly, absolutely, only means the '''''Christian socialist''''' portions of Methodism and not all of Methodism.

:As I've been typing this, I have been looking things up.  You can probably disregard much of what I have typed above(though I will leave it as I typed it because it is good foundational information) in a sense, because it is only general, not specific.  See [https://books.google.com/books?id=sbAADQAAQBAJ&pg=PA135 this], its specific.  Christian socialists(throw in Labour and the Fabians, of course) created a "Labour Church", and between the 1910's to the mid 1930's, the "movement" seems to be that they were largely Methodists, or perhaps the more notable members were.  So what I had typed earlier in speculation was correct: The Christian socialists at some point expanded into Methodism.  I will say this again though: when he says "Methodism" he clearly, absolutely, only means the '''''Christian socialist''''' portions of Methodism and not all of Methodism. [[User:Progressingamerica|Progressingamerica]] ([[User talk:Progressingamerica|talk]]) 00:25, 21 December 2016 (EST)

:Specifically, see [https://books.google.com/books?id=sbAADQAAQBAJ&pg=PA135 this].  Christian socialists(throw in Labour and the Fabians, of course) created a "Labour Church", and between the 1910's to the mid 1930's, the "movement" seems to be that they were largely Methodists, or perhaps the more notable members were.  [[User:Progressingamerica|Progressingamerica]] ([[User talk:Progressingamerica|talk]]) 00:25, 21 December 2016 (EST)

Phillips' claim has gotten a lot of attention over the years, it seems.  I just noticed that this book, which I just cited: "''Labour and the Free Churches, 1918-1939: Radicalism, Righteousness and Religion''" has as its goal of answering that very question - was Phillips correct?  See the [https://books.google.com/books?id=sbAADQAAQBAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s description page].  I have never read the book, but it probably has all the answers sought after. [[User:Progressingamerica|Progressingamerica]] ([[User talk:Progressingamerica|talk]]) 00:30, 21 December 2016 (EST)

Phillips' claim has gotten a lot of attention over the years, it seems.  I just noticed that this book, which I just cited: "''Labour and the Free Churches, 1918-1939: Radicalism, Righteousness and Religion''" has as its goal of answering that very question - was Phillips correct?  See the [https://books.google.com/books?id=sbAADQAAQBAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s description page].  I have never read the book, but it probably has all the answers sought after. [[User:Progressingamerica|Progressingamerica]] ([[User talk:Progressingamerica|talk]]) 00:30, 21 December 2016 (EST)