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→Schlieffen
"Moltke revived it in 1911"? The plan was always operational, from 1892-1914. Moltke was updating it, based on technical improvements and manpower requirements after Schlieffen's retirement. This is common in all contingent military operational plans. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''CIA v Trump updated score'':CIA 3, Trump 2]]</sup>
"Moltke revived it in 1911"? The plan was always operational, from 1892-1914. Moltke was updating it, based on technical improvements and manpower requirements after Schlieffen's retirement. This is common in all contingent military operational plans. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''CIA v Trump updated score'':CIA 3, Trump 2]]</sup>
:The German military archive was recovered at the end of the Cold War and [https://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Schlieffen-Plan-Planning-1871-1914/dp/0198718055/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 Terence Zubar] has reviewed it. His conclusion is that Schlieffen never used the Schlieffen Plan as an actual war plan. If Germany had gone to war with Schlieffen in command, it would have followed a strategy of defense followed by counterattacks. This was probably the only realistic strategy given the size and capabilities of the Germany army in Schlieffen's time. I don't think it is reasonable to think of the plan as "operational" before army expansion in 1913. In WWII, the Germans had tank divisions. These swung around the Maginot line and played the role of Carthaginian cavalry. The complexities of the Schlieffen Plan can't be dealt with here and requires its own article. [[User:PeterKa|PeterKa]] ([[User talk:PeterKa|talk]]) 20:43, 27 March 2017 (EDT)
:The German military archive was recovered at the end of the Cold War and [https://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Schlieffen-Plan-Planning-1871-1914/dp/0198718055/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 Terence Zubar] has reviewed it. His conclusion is that Schlieffen never used the Schlieffen Plan as an actual war plan. If Germany had gone to war with Schlieffen in command, it would have followed a strategy of defense followed by counterattacks. This was probably the only realistic strategy given the size and capabilities of the Germany army in Schlieffen's time. I don't think it is reasonable to think of the plan as "operational" before army expansion in 1913. In WWII, the Germans had tank divisions. These swung around the Maginot line and played the role of Carthaginian cavalry. The complexities of the Schlieffen Plan can't be dealt with here and requires its own article. [[User:PeterKa|PeterKa]] ([[User talk:PeterKa|talk]]) 20:43, 27 March 2017 (EDT)
:I agree with that. I think much of it is just being misrepresented here.
::I agree with that. I think much of it is just being misrepresented here.
:It's an age old question. Talking about it gives one the impression the Schlieffen plan caused the deadlock, trench warfare, and the needless loss of 4 million lives. If on the other hand, it ''was not'' implemented, why is it relavent to any discussion of WWI?
::It's an age old question. Talking about it gives one the impression the Schlieffen plan caused the deadlock, trench warfare, and the needless loss of 4 million lives. If on the other hand, it ''was not'' implemented, why is it relavent to any discussion of WWI?
:Here we start to get into the politics of [[demonization]] by [[pacifist]]s against [[militarism]] which started after 1918. And a simple looking at the facts destroys any argument they had, no matter how widespread and popular. I just don't see the point of keeping alive in the 21st century such widely discredited and disproven notions. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''CIA v Trump updated score'':CIA 3, Trump 2]]</sup> 21:05, 27 March 2017 (EDT)
::Here we start to get into the politics of [[demonization]] by [[pacifist]]s against [[militarism]] which started after 1918. And a simple looking at the facts destroys any argument they had, no matter how widespread and popular. I just don't see the point of keeping alive in the 21st century such widely discredited and disproven notions. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''CIA v Trump updated score'':CIA 3, Trump 2]]</sup> 21:05, 27 March 2017 (EDT)