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→Mistaken objection to Mark 4:39: your "translation" is just wrong
:::We've fully discussed this in [[Essay:Calming the Storm]]. Time to accept the basic physics and other indications that Jesus did not speak verbally to the sea, as some mistranslations claim.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 10:56, 8 April 2017 (EDT)
:::We've fully discussed this in [[Essay:Calming the Storm]]. Time to accept the basic physics and other indications that Jesus did not speak verbally to the sea, as some mistranslations claim.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 10:56, 8 April 2017 (EDT)
::::"'' Jesus did not speak verbally to the sea, as some mistranslations claim.''" ''Some mistranslations''? Don't be so modest - every single translation and interpretation claims that Jesus spoke verbally to the sea. Why? '''Because your "translation" is just wrong.''' Take it to any Greek seminary, any place where Koine Greek is taught, any teacher of Koine Greek and they all will tell you the same (more or less politely): your "translation" looks as if you have taken the words, semi-randomly looked up an English meaning for each word in a dictionary, and then assembled the English to build a sentence without regard for the original Greek syntax.
::::Moreover, you make Mark looking bad - as if he wanted to deceive his readers and listeners (see [[#Making Mark look bad]])
::::--[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] ([[User talk:AugustO|talk]]) 15:12, 8 April 2017 (EDT)
===Making Mark look bad===
Mark uses a straightforward, simple language in his Gospel. This makes it easy to spot figures like direct speech, though there are no quotation marks. Generally, he announces upcoming direct speech by the verb λέγω, while the part which makes up the direct speech will be a new sentence. Take e.g., the eleven occurrences of direct speech in Mark 4:
{|
!Mark 4:2-3
|καὶ ἐδίδασκεν αὐτοὺς ἐν παραβολαῖς πολλά, καὶ <span style="color:red">ἔλεγεν</span> αὐτοῖς ἐν τῇ διδαχῇ αὐτοῦ <span style="color:blue">Ἀκούετε.</span> <span style="color:lightblue">ἰδοὺ ἐξῆλθεν ὁ σπείρων σπεῖραι.</span>
|-
!Mark 4:9
|καὶ <span style="color:red">ἔλεγεν</span> <span style="color:blue">Ὃς</span> <span style="color:lightblue">ἔχει ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.</span>
|-
!Mark 4:11
|καὶ <span style="color:red">ἔλεγεν</span> αὐτοῖς <span style="color:blue">Ὑμῖν</span> <span style="color:lightblue">τὸ μυστήριον δέδοται τῆς βασιλείας τοῦ Θεοῦ· ἐκείνοις δὲ τοῖς ἔξω ἐν παραβολαῖς τὰ πάντα γίνεται,</span>
|-
!Mark 4:13
|καὶ <span style="color:red">λέγει</span> αὐτοῖς <span style="color:blue">Οὐκ</span> <span style="color:lightblue">οἴδατε τὴν παραβολὴν ταύτην, καὶ πῶς πάσας τὰς παραβολὰς γνώσεσθε;</span>
|-
!Mark 4:21
|Καὶ <span style="color:red">ἔλεγεν</span> αὐτοῖς ὅτι <span style="color:blue">Μήτι</span> <span style="color:lightblue">ἔρχεται ὁ λύχνος ἵνα ὑπὸ τὸν μόδιον τεθῇ ἢ ὑπὸ τὴν κλίνην; οὐχ ἵνα ἐπὶ τὴν λυχνίαν τεθῇ;</span>
|-
!Mark 4:24
|Καὶ <span style="color:red">ἔλεγεν</span> αὐτοῖς <span style="color:blue">Βλέπετε</span> <span style="color:lightblue">τί ἀκούετε. ἐν ᾧ μέτρῳ μετρεῖτε μετρηθήσεται ὑμῖν, καὶ προστεθήσεται ὑμῖν.</span>
|-
!Mark 4:26
|Καὶ <span style="color:red">ἔλεγεν</span> <span style="color:blue">Οὕτως</span> <span style="color:lightblue">ἐστὶν ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ Θεοῦ, ὡς ἄνθρωπος βάλῃ τὸν σπόρον ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς,</span>
|-
!Mark 4:30
|Καὶ <span style="color:red">ἔλεγεν</span> <span style="color:blue">Πῶς</span> <span style="color:lightblue">ὁμοιώσωμεν τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἢ ἐν τίνι αὐτὴν παραβολῇ θῶμεν;</span>
|-
!Mark 4:35
|Καὶ <span style="color:red">λέγει</span> αὐτοῖς ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ὀψίας γενομένης <span style="color:blue">Διέλθωμεν</span> <span style="color:lightblue">εἰς τὸ πέραν.</span>
|-
!Mark 4:39
|καὶ διεγερθεὶς ἐπετίμησεν τῷ ἀνέμῳ καὶ <span style="color:red">εἶπεν</span> τῇ θαλάσσῃ <span style="color:blue">Σιώπα,</span> <span style="color:lightblue">πεφίμωσο.</span> καὶ ἐκόπασεν ὁ ἄνεμος, καὶ ἐγένετο γαλήνη μεγάλη.
|-
!Mark 4:41
|καὶ ἐφοβήθησαν φόβον μέγαν, καὶ <span style="color:red">ἔλεγον</span> πρὸς ἀλλήλους <span style="color:blue">Τίς</span> <span style="color:lightblue">ἄρα οὗτός ἐστιν, ὅτι καὶ ὁ ἄνεμος καὶ ἡ θάλασσα ὑπακούει αὐτῷ;</span>
|}
Each time the same routine: a form of the verb λέγω (marked red), then a new sentence (lightblue) - which can easily be identified because the first word of the sentence (blue) is capitalized. Though that wasn't a feature of the earliest manuscripts, capitalization was used quite early on and just highlighted the new sentence - which can be recognized in other ways, too.
There is nothing fanciful in this method - Mark doesn't put the λέγω in the midst of the speech, or at its end, there are no surprises. But Andrew Schlafly wants to make us believe that in Mark 4:39 Mark deliberately used the same language which indicates a verbal exchange over and over again to mean the opposite: a silent command to the sea.
A far more simple explanation is that Andrew Schlafly's "translation" is just wrong. That is not so surprising, as he had demonstrated at [[Essay:Calming the Storm]] and [[Talk:Essay:Calming the Storm]], that he has difficulties
*differentiating between the Greek letters
*recognizing derived forms of Greek words
*differentiating between the Greek cases
*reading his own sources diligently
--[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] ([[User talk:AugustO|talk]]) 15:12, 8 April 2017 (EDT)
== Format ==
== Format ==