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→SOME MAJOR ERRORS
::::[[Communist]]s did infiltrate the [[Deep state]] in the 1950s, and no one credibly denies that. As to litigation, it is not surprising that courts ruled against [[JBS]] just as they ruled against [[pro-life]]rs, [[Richard Nixon]], [[Jerry Falwell]], General William Westmoreland, [[Donald J. Trump]], and so on.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 20:35, 23 June 2019 (EDT)
::::[[Communist]]s did infiltrate the [[Deep state]] in the 1950s, and no one credibly denies that. As to litigation, it is not surprising that courts ruled against [[JBS]] just as they ruled against [[pro-life]]rs, [[Richard Nixon]], [[Jerry Falwell]], General William Westmoreland, [[Donald J. Trump]], and so on.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 20:35, 23 June 2019 (EDT)
:::::Andy is spot-on that the courts often are biased against conservatives -- particularly in the liberal-dominated courts before conservatives even began taking serious action to counter judicial activism. Also, I wouldn't view the deep state as authoritative when it reports on left-wing influence within its own ranks. That's almost like an MSM news agency reporting on the level of bias within itself. --[[User:1990'sguy|1990'sguy]] ([[User talk:1990'sguy|talk]]) 22:47, 23 June 2019 (EDT)
:::::Andy is spot-on that the courts often are biased against conservatives -- particularly in the liberal-dominated courts before conservatives even began taking serious action to counter judicial activism. Also, I wouldn't view the deep state as authoritative when it reports on left-wing influence within its own ranks. That's almost like an MSM news agency reporting on the level of bias within itself. --[[User:1990'sguy|1990'sguy]] ([[User talk:1990'sguy|talk]]) 22:47, 23 June 2019 (EDT)
==REPLY TO ANDY SCHLAFLY and "Sguy"==
ANDY: Nobody rational disputes the notion that there was infiltration into our society by Communists. But acknowledging that does '''NOT''' mean that we must accept '''EVERY lunatic assertion made by political extremists''' (right or left).
As previously mentioned, even Robert Welch and the Birch Society acknowledged repeatedly that Hoover's FBI was '''indisputably''' our nation's most knowledgeable and reliable source of FACTUAL information regarding the Communist movement. Consequently, one must compare Robert Welch's assertion that the U.S. was "''60% to 80% under Communist influence and control"'' versus what FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover said '''when he was asked about that JBS assertion.'''
For example:
'''"The Communist Party in this country has attempted to infiltrate and subvert every segment of our society, but its continuing efforts have not achieved success of any substance. Too many self-styled experts on communism, without valid credentials and without any access whatsoever to classified factual data regarding the inner workings of the conspiracy, have engaged in rumor-mongering and hurling false and wholly unsubstantiated allegations against persons whose views differ from their own. This is dangerous business. It is divisive and unintelligent, and makes more difficult the task of the professional investigator"'''. [Hoover statement in February 5, 1962 letter to Mrs. W.R. Brown of Bountiful Utah; also published as letter-to-editor in ''Tri-Cities Daily'' newspaper of Sheffield, Alabama on Sunday March 31, 1963. Copy of Hoover letter in FBI HQ file 94-1-369, serial #1676]
Also see page 5 of Hoover speech, 12/7/61, ''"The Faith To Be Free"''
Page 5:
'''“The extent of the menace posed by the philosophy of communism is clear-cut and obvious. However, it is absolutely necessary that we attack and oppose it calmly, rationally, and objectively… The Communist Party in this country has attempted to infiltrate and subvert every segment of our society. The Party’s efforts have been thwarted in this country by the Government’s internal security programs, by investigation, arrest and prosecution of Party functionaries, and by widespread intelligent public opposition to the communist philosophy.”'''
<big>'''EVERY major argument by the Birch Society (and endorsed by its supporters like your mother) was falsified by our FBI.'''</big>
For example:
According to Robert Welch and the JBS:
In the June 1965 ''JBS Bulletin'', Mr. Welch observed:
'''"Our task must be simply to make clear that the movement known as civil rights is Communist-plotted, Communist-controlled, and in fact...serves only Communist purposes."
'''
In August 1965, the JBS ran a full-page ad in many U.S. newspapers entitled “''What’s Wrong With Civil Rights?''” One of the answers provided by the JBS was:
'''“For the civil rights movement in the United States with all of its growing agitation and riots and bitterness, and insidious steps toward the appearance of civil war, has not been infiltrated by the Communists, as you now frequently hear. It has been deliberately and almost wholly created by the Communists patiently building up to this present stage for more than thirty years.”''' [FBI-HQ 62-104401, serial #2621, 8/31/65 airtel from SAC Birmingham to J. Edgar Hoover with attachment of ad from Sunday 8/29/65 Birmingham AL News.]
In the November 1965 ''JBS Bulletin'', page 44, Robert Welch declared:
“'''We have said many times, and we repeat now, that if you can fully expose the civil rights fraud, you will break the back of the Communist conspiracy. But the word ‘fully’ is important in that sentence. It calls for bringing a preponderant majority of our fellow citizens really to grasp the fact that the ‘civil rights’ program has been designed by Communists, is controlled by Communists, and will be used by the Communists as a vital part of their total strategy for taking over our country.”'''
<big>'''BY CONTRAST -- THE FBI POSITION:'''</big>
In 1965, J. Edgar Hoover described the civil rights movement as ''"'''a great and too long neglected cause of human rights'''"'' in our country. [''FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin'', Introduction, April 1965].
Hoover observed in a December 1964 speech, that:
'''"Let me emphasize that the American civil rights movement is ''not'' and has ''never'' been dominated by the communists--because the overwhelming majority of civil rights leaders in this country, both Negro and white, have recognized and rejected communism as a menace to the freedoms of all."''' [J. Edgar Hoover speech, 12/12/64, ''Our Heritage of Greatness'', pg 7 - Hoover speech before Pennsylvania Society and the Society of Pennsylvania Women; bold emphasis on "not" and "never" in original document].
'''"OVERWHELMING MAJORITY"?''' -- The Birch Society could not identify '''EVEN ONE''' national civil rights organization or leader who was not supposedly compromised by Communists!
In November 1966, Hoover received an inquiry from a self-identified JBS member who saw the above quote in a letter-to-the-editor of his local newspaper and the Bircher wanted to know if the quote was an accurate reflection of Hoover’s judgment both in 1964 and 1966. Hoover replied affirmatively and concluded: '''“This position remains essentially unchanged today'''.” [FBI-HQ 62-104401-3021, 11/15/66 Hoover reply to incoming Bircher inquiry].
<big>Also see following Hoover comments:</big>
'''“Communist leaders have been complaining bitterly about the turnover of Negro members and of the Party’s inability to indoctrinate any large number of Negroes. Information we have received follows a regular pattern: Negroes are rejecting Communism.'''” [J. Edgar Hoover, ''Masters of Deceit'', 1958, page 232]
“'''It would be absurd to suggest that the aspirations of Negroes for equality are communist inspired. This is demonstrably not true…”''' [J. Edgar Hoover speech, ''Faith In Freedom'', 12/4/63, page 6].
Significantly, the House Committee on Un-American Activities made the same conclusion.
AND
'''“The Communist Party in this country has, from its inception, endeavored to attract Negroes to its ranks. At one stage of its existence the Party even undertook to establish a Negro nation in the deep South and through its Southern Conference for Human Welfare made an all-out effort to recruit large numbers of the Negro people. This attempt, like the Communist attempt to penetrate and control the N.A.A.C.P., resulted in failure.”''' [Eleventh Report of the California Senate Fact-Finding Subcommittee on Un-American Activities, 1961, page 136].
<big>'''ROBERT WELCH AND THE JBS ON PERSONS WHO WERE ALLEGEDLY "COMMUNIST SYMPATHIZERS" or "PRO-COMMUNIST"'''
</big>
Welch described U.S. Senator Estes Kefauver of Tennessee as one of a group of U.S. Senators whom it was '''"...utter folly to think of as just liberals. Every one of those men is either an actual Communist or so completely a Communist sympathizer or agent that it makes no practical difference..."''' [Welch comments to first meeting of JBS National Council at Union League Club in Chicago IL, January 1960]
'''BY CONTRAST, THE FBI POSITION:'''
When Senator Kefauver passed away, J. Edgar Hoover sent the following telegram to Mrs. Estes Kefauver:
“'''Please accept my deepest sympathy in the passing of your husband. This is a great shock to me and to his many friends throughout the nation and the world. While words are most inadequate on such an occasion, I hope you may gain some consolation from knowing that his outstanding contributions to the welfare of his country and his deep concern for his fellow man will long serve as a memorial to him. His achievements and devotion to duty as a public servant are a special tribute to his statesmanship. His passing creates a void which our nation can ill afford and is a great loss to all mankind. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. J. Edgar Hoover”''' [HQ 62-77208, #108, 8/10/63 Hoover telegram to Mrs. Estes Kefauver, Washington DC]
A notation on Bureau file copy of the telegram text is as follows:
'''“Senator Kefauver was a very close friend of the Director and the FBI. He was on the Special Correspondents’ List on a first-name basis'''.”
<big>'''ROBERT WELCH AND THE JBS ON DR. HARRY OVERSTREET -- author of 1958 book, "''What We Must Know About Communism''".'''</big>
Welch described Harry Overstreet's book as "'''pro-Communist doubletalk'''".
Furthermore: Robert Welch discussed an article about Overstreet which the Birch Society published in the October 1959 issue of its magazine, ''American Opinion''.
Welch stated that the JBS article '''"showed the blatant falsehoods to which Harry Overstreet has resorted in connection with his earlier and continuing close affiliations with Communists and support of Communist purposes."''' [Robert Welch: ''What Is The John Birch Society?'', 1970, page 18].
What Welch did not know is that the FBI's Chief Inspector at that time (their expert on the communist movement inside the U.S.) personally assisted Overstreet with writing his book. The Chief Inspector spent hours every week reviewing first drafts of Overstreet chapters in his new book, and the Inspector made suggestions for revising the text. The Inspector also provided Overstreet with public source materials from FBI files.
After the book was published, Overstreet sent a copy to J. Edgar Hoover and he asked Hoover if he would like to visit Overstreet's home some evening for dinner.
Hoover declined the dinner invitation, but he wrote the following to Harry Overstreet and his wife Bonaro:
'''"I do hope that your fine book 'What We Must Know About Communism' will enjoy excellent sales and wide reading throughout 1959. We need more and more people like yourselves who will devote their nationally recognized academic talents to the exposure and ultimate defeat of the menace of world communism.'''" [FBI HQ file 100-114575-95, January 21, 1959, J. Edgar Hoover to Harry Overstreet].
A formal review of the Overstreet book was prepared at the Bureau in October 1958 after Harry sent a copy to Hoover inscribed from both him and his wife as follows:
"'''To J. Edgar Hoover -- With personal gratitude for what you have superbly done for all of us."'''
The review concluded that...
"'''...this new book represents cogent advice to the thinking public. It reflects ideas common to the thinking which has gone on in the Bureau for many years."'''
Overstreet's book also was described as a "''welcome new aid''" in combating Communism. [HQ 100-114575-91, October 1, 1958, W.C. Sullivan to Alan H. Belmont]
In December 1958, Hoover wrote to Harry the following message after reading a newspaper article about him:
'''"I have seen the interesting article about Mrs. Overstreet and you which appeared in the December 3, 1958 issue of the 'Northern Virginia Sun'. It is always a pleasure to read about good friends because it serves as a reminder of happy associations. It is good to see your fine work recognized in this fitting manner, and your many friends in the FBI join me in sending our best wishes.'''" [HQ 100-114575-93, December 5, 1958, J. Edgar Hoover to Harry Overstreet]
When Harry died, J. Edgar Hoover sent the following telegram to Mrs. Overstreet:
"'''I was deeply saddened to learn of Dr. Overstreet's passing and want you to know you have my deepest sympathy. Words certainly are inadequate at a time like this but I hope you will derive some measure of comfort from knowing that others share your sorrow...You can be justifiably proud of the many contributions which he made to his country and the high esteem in which he is held."''' [J. Edgar Hoover telegram to Bonaro Overstreet; HQ 100-114575, serial 195, August 19, 1970]
<big>'''Andy Schlafly's comments should be evaluated in the context that both Andy's mom and dad (Phyllis and Fred) were JBS members.'''</big>
J. Edgar Hoover grew so weary of the lies and misrepresentations and inflammatory comments circulated by the JBS (and its surrogates) that he finally had enough. He asked the American Legion to assist the FBI in countering the '''falsehoods''' disseminated by the Birch Society -- which they did. [One action the Legion took was to recommend Overstreet's book!].
Then, during his Warren Commission testimony (and afterward) Hoover made the following comments:
"'''I think the extreme right is just as much a danger to the freedom of this country as the extreme left. There are groups, organizations, and individuals on the extreme right who make these very violent statements, allegations that General Eisenhower was a Communist, disparaging references to the Chief Justice and at the other end of the spectrum you have these leftists who make wild statements charging almost anybody with being a Fascist or belonging to some of these so-called extreme right societies."'''
'''"Now, I have felt, and I have said publicly in speeches, that they are just as much a danger, at either end of the spectrum. They don't deal with facts. Anybody who will allege that General Eisenhower was a Communist agent, has something wrong with him. A lot of people read such allegations because I get some of the weirdest letters wanting to know whether we have inquired to find out whether that is true. I have known General Eisenhower quite well myself and I have found him to be a sound, level-headed man."''' (Warren Commission, Volume 5, page 101)
AND, a year later, during a press conference Hoover was even more explicit:
'''"Personally, I have little respect for the head of the John Birch Society since he linked the names of former President Dwight D. Eisenhower, the late John Foster Dulles, and former CIA Director Allen Dulles with communism."'''
The Birch Society performed a flawless '''PRO-Communist service''' (in conjunction with the Communist Party USA) by trashing anti-Communist Americans and by making false accusations and conclusions about the status of our internal security.
In brief reply to "Sguy", the court decisions which the JBS and its surrogates have lost in libel actions were often made by conservative judges and Supreme Court justices because FACTS still matter. You cannot dismiss every adverse decision by pretending that the JBS is never gravely mistaken -- which is why virtually the entire conservative movement in our country denounced and rejected the JBS.
<big>I agree with these comments which the JBS posted on its website many years ago:</big>
'''"What is fact? What is fiction? How can you know? Conspiracy theories abound on the Internet. While some may be fairly accurate, others are not. Much of what is out there goes beyond the facts into wild conjecturing, and even outright fabrication of information. This has had an effect something like Gresham's Law (‘bad money drives out good money’), in which bad information drives out good information."'''
Unfortunately, the Birch Society has a very long history of presenting fabrications and endorsing fiction AND "bad information". [[User:Ernie1241|Ernie1241]] ([[User talk:Ernie1241|talk]])ernie1241[[User:Ernie1241|Ernie1241]] ([[User talk:Ernie1241|talk]])