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Line 119: − − :::The Wikipedia article you cited about OEV says nothing about HKFP. But Wikipedia does say this about Tiananmen square: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_at_the_1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests] [[User:Shobson20|Shobson20]] ([[User talk:Shobson20|talk]]) 22:02, 16 July 2019 (EDT) − − :::This is what Wikipedia has to say about HKFP [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Free_Press]. It describes it as a "a free, non-profit online newspaper based in Hong Kong. It was founded by independent journalists in response to concerns over declining press freedom in the territory; to provide an alternative to the dominant English language news source, China's Alibaba-controlled South China Morning Post; and to provide quicker English coverage of local news." with no reference to OEV. [[User:Shobson20|Shobson20]] ([[User talk:Shobson20|talk]]) 22:10, 16 July 2019 (EDT)
→User: MarxistLeninist's response (Also known as ML): Reorganization
I am very suspicious of this source, the CIA has created front organisations to smear other countries that are opposed to the U.S, such as Radio Free Europe, and Radio Free Asia. <ref>https://old.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/73bzh1/radio_free_asia_americas_own_fake_news_anti_china/</ref> RFE has also targeted propaganda at American citizens through social media ads. <ref>https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/radio-free-europe-posted-stealth-us-facebook-ads_n_5b5538e8e4b0fd5c73c6ae4e</ref>
I am very suspicious of this source, the CIA has created front organisations to smear other countries that are opposed to the U.S, such as Radio Free Europe, and Radio Free Asia. <ref>https://old.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/73bzh1/radio_free_asia_americas_own_fake_news_anti_china/</ref> RFE has also targeted propaganda at American citizens through social media ads. <ref>https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/radio-free-europe-posted-stealth-us-facebook-ads_n_5b5538e8e4b0fd5c73c6ae4e</ref>
:The Wikipedia article you cited about OEV says nothing about HKFP. But Wikipedia does say this about Tiananmen square: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_at_the_1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests] [[User:Shobson20|Shobson20]] ([[User talk:Shobson20|talk]]) 22:02, 16 July 2019 (EDT)
:This is what Wikipedia has to say about HKFP [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Free_Press]. It describes it as a "a free, non-profit online newspaper based in Hong Kong. It was founded by independent journalists in response to concerns over declining press freedom in the territory; to provide an alternative to the dominant English language news source, China's Alibaba-controlled South China Morning Post; and to provide quicker English coverage of local news." with no reference to OEV. [[User:Shobson20|Shobson20]] ([[User talk:Shobson20|talk]]) 22:10, 16 July 2019 (EDT)
* Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy '''freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.'''
* Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy '''freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.'''
::: Well in that case, you're definitely NOT pro-free speech. Free speech means '''all speech, even if it is "propaganda."''' Besides, you keep citing shills for Socialism, like Liberation News, so I could just as easily dismiss your sources as "propaganda." [[User:Shobson20|Shobson20]] ([[User talk:Shobson20|talk]]) 21:12, 16 July 2019 (EDT)
::: Well in that case, you're definitely NOT pro-free speech. Free speech means '''all speech, even if it is "propaganda."''' Besides, you keep citing shills for Socialism, like Liberation News, so I could just as easily dismiss your sources as "propaganda." [[User:Shobson20|Shobson20]] ([[User talk:Shobson20|talk]]) 21:12, 16 July 2019 (EDT)
:::You changed your words, you originally said "I believe the Great Firewall is justified, due to the amount of propaganda that exists on the Internet" and that's what I was responding to, don't change the words of a comment I'm responding to, just make another comment admitting you made a poor choice of words. [[User:Shobson20|Shobson20]] ([[User talk:Shobson20|talk]]) 21:32, 16 July 2019 (EDT)
:::You changed your words, you originally said "I believe the Great Firewall is justified, due to the amount of propaganda that exists on the Internet" and that's what I was responding to, don't change the words of a comment I'm responding to, just make another comment admitting you made a poor choice of words. [[User:Shobson20|Shobson20]] ([[User talk:Shobson20|talk]]) 21:32, 16 July 2019 (EDT)
:::: Destabilizing a country has a very large potential to cause harm to the citizens of that country. For example, how many people have died in Afghanistan, because the U.S funded extremist groups in the name of "fighing the commies"? If you count the War in Afghanistan as being caused by American destabilization efforts, then the destabilization of Afghanistan has lead to 31,000 civilian deaths. <ref>https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2016/War%20in%20Afghanistan%20and%20Pakistan%20UPDATE_FINAL_corrected%20date.pdf</ref> And in a country like China, with over a billion people, that could cause millions of deaths, if say, a civil war broke out. It would also end China's economic rise, putting millions in poverty.
:::: Destabilizing a country has a very large potential to cause harm to the citizens of that country. For example, how many people have died in Afghanistan, because the U.S funded extremist groups in the name of "fighing the commies"? If you count the War in Afghanistan as being caused by American destabilization efforts, then the destabilization of Afghanistan has lead to 31,000 civilian deaths. <ref>https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2016/War%20in%20Afghanistan%20and%20Pakistan%20UPDATE_FINAL_corrected%20date.pdf</ref> And in a country like China, with over a billion people, that could cause millions of deaths, if say, a civil war broke out. It would also end China's economic rise, putting millions in poverty.