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→"Helpless" babies and sinners - Ephesians 2:11-16 and Romans 5:12-19; Romans 5:6-11 and 8:31-39; 2 Timothy 2:13 and 2 Corinthians 1:19-22 and John 10:35
:::::(''by the way, you misspelled "lose", as in lost. "loose" is to release, set free, unfasten.'') <br> --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 17:22, 27 October 2019 (EDT)
:::::(''by the way, you misspelled "lose", as in lost. "loose" is to release, set free, unfasten.'') <br> --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 17:22, 27 October 2019 (EDT)
::::::Baptism does not save. The blood of Jesus saves. And eternal life does not mean eternal life, I suppose; God must be a liar, then. And you nullify the doctrine of grace and and death of Jesus if you think mortal sin can undo the work of Christ. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 17:31, 27 October 2019 (EDT)
::::::Baptism does not save. The blood of Jesus saves. And eternal life does not mean eternal life, I suppose; God must be a liar, then. And you nullify the doctrine of grace and and death of Jesus if you think mortal sin can undo the work of Christ.
::::::Who needs Jesus? and what did he die for? if we are still judged by our works (being baptized) or mortal sins? Grace, I suppose is non-existent. And when God promised eternal life, it wasn't contingent on God's sacrifice of his Son, but still on your own works is what you are preaching.
::::::''This people worships me with their lips, but their heart is far from me, teaching as commandments the doctrines of men''
::::::See also Mark chapter 7: “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!....13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
::::::Let me point out the obvious error - ''without shedding of blood there is no remission''. Baptism is by water, not of blood. You are offering a bloodless sacrifice of your works, rejecting the work of Christ, to establish your own tradition.. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 17:43, 27 October 2019 (EDT)
[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 17:31, 27 October 2019 (EDT)