Changes

:::"''parents stand in the place of God toward their children''" Yes. They save their children by baptism. Just as Paul said Timothy saved those entrusted to him. And James said those who bring back someone from the error of their way save them. And the Church teaches the same, that the faith of the parents and of Mother Church stand in for the faith of the newborn child "while we were helpless" when the child is baptized. The Bible never says that infants were not baptized. Or that the children of believers were not baptized before they came to personal faith in Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, it is still Jesus Christ and his saving blood poured out in the washing of the water of baptism with the word "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" for the salvation of all who are born again by water and the Spirit who baptizes ''ex opere operato'' in sacramental water baptism with the word "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". <br>'''Your doctrine that salvation is only by faith alone''', a saving faith in Christ, a '''faith that you say the newborn infant and baby does not have''' and '''cannot confess with their lips unto salvation''', the absence of which ''ipso facto'' '''condemns them to eternal torment in the lake of fire because they do not believe with faith in confessing Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior "he who does not believe will be condemned"''' (Mk 16:16), condemns them to eternal torment simply because they are incapable of confessing Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. <br>But while your doctrine of salvation by faith alone in the Lord condemns all babies who have no faith in the Lord when they die and all sinners who never heard the Gospel and do not believe and all grown persons mentally incompetent to understand anything and do not believe and therefore that God is willing that all such souls perish simply because they do not have faith in Jesus Christ, the ''biblical doctrine'' that unless one is born again by water and the Spirit one cannot enter the kingdom of God, and that baptism now saves us "while we were helpless" by the water-washing of regeneration and renewal by the Spirit and saves helpless babies and sinners who are incompetent to understand what salvation and faith and sin are, because God is not willing that any should perish. And that is why Jesus commanded to baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" to "wash away your sins" and make "a new creature" who is able to come to faith in the Lord and "partake of the divine nature", and why whole households including children were baptized during the first centuries of Christianity. That biblical doctrine is also the doctrine of the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church and all the Protestant churches that baptize infants for salvation. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 00:07, 7 November 2019 (EST)

:::"''parents stand in the place of God toward their children''" Yes. They save their children by baptism. Just as Paul said Timothy saved those entrusted to him. And James said those who bring back someone from the error of their way save them. And the Church teaches the same, that the faith of the parents and of Mother Church stand in for the faith of the newborn child "while we were helpless" when the child is baptized. The Bible never says that infants were not baptized. Or that the children of believers were not baptized before they came to personal faith in Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, it is still Jesus Christ and his saving blood poured out in the washing of the water of baptism with the word "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" for the salvation of all who are born again by water and the Spirit who baptizes ''ex opere operato'' in sacramental water baptism with the word "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". <br>'''Your doctrine that salvation is only by faith alone''', a saving faith in Christ, a '''faith that you say the newborn infant and baby does not have''' and '''cannot confess with their lips unto salvation''', the absence of which ''ipso facto'' '''condemns them to eternal torment in the lake of fire because they do not believe with faith in confessing Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior "he who does not believe will be condemned"''' (Mk 16:16), condemns them to eternal torment simply because they are incapable of confessing Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. <br>But while your doctrine of salvation by faith alone in the Lord condemns all babies who have no faith in the Lord when they die and all sinners who never heard the Gospel and do not believe and all grown persons mentally incompetent to understand anything and do not believe and therefore that God is willing that all such souls perish simply because they do not have faith in Jesus Christ, the ''biblical doctrine'' that unless one is born again by water and the Spirit one cannot enter the kingdom of God, and that baptism now saves us "while we were helpless" by the water-washing of regeneration and renewal by the Spirit and saves helpless babies and sinners who are incompetent to understand what salvation and faith and sin are, because God is not willing that any should perish. And that is why Jesus commanded to baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" to "wash away your sins" and make "a new creature" who is able to come to faith in the Lord and "partake of the divine nature", and why whole households including children were baptized during the first centuries of Christianity. That biblical doctrine is also the doctrine of the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church and all the Protestant churches that baptize infants for salvation. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 00:07, 7 November 2019 (EST)

::::You just don't get it, do ya? You just preaching wrath. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]} 00:12, 7 November 2019 (EST)

::::You just don't get it, do ya? You're just preaching wrath. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]} 00:12, 7 November 2019 (EST)