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Talk:Infant baptism (view source)
Revision as of 05:16, November 17, 2019
, 05:16, November 17, 2019→Bring forth the scriptures that say "baptism cannot save": response to "faith is the simple trust of a child in a parent" - not the same as the faith required for "believer's baptism"
::Hint: When an infant opens its arms to recieve its mother's breast it is displaying faith. Faith is neither an intellectual exercise nor a 'work' to be performed. It is the simple trust of a child in a parent. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup>
::Hint: When an infant opens its arms to recieve its mother's breast it is displaying faith. Faith is neither an intellectual exercise nor a 'work' to be performed. It is the simple trust of a child in a parent. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup>
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:::"Simple trust of a child in a parent is not the conscious awareness and repentance of sin and faith in Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior you teach as necessary for salvation. '''Your doctrine that salvation is only by faith alone, a saving faith in Christ, a faith that you say the newborn infant and baby does not have''' and '''cannot confess with their lips unto salvation''', the absence of which ''ipso facto'' '''condemns them to eternal torment in the lake of fire because they do not believe with faith in confessing with their lips Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior because "he who does not believe will be condemned"''' (Mark 16:16), and '''condemns them to eternal torment simply because they are incapable of confessing Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior'''. <br>Your doctrine of salvation by faith alone in the Lord condemns to wrath all babies who have no faith in the Lord Jesus Christ when they die, and all sinners who never heard the Gospel and do not believe, and all grown persons mentally incompetent to understand anything and do not believe, and therefore teaches that God is willing that all such souls perish simply because they do not have faith in Jesus Christ. In contradiction of this doctrine, the ''biblical doctrine'' proclaims that unless one is born again by water and the Spirit one cannot enter the kingdom of God, and that baptism now saves us "while we were helpless" by the water-washing of regeneration and renewal by the Spirit and saves helpless babies and sinners who are incompetent to understand what salvation and faith and sin are, because God is not willing that any should perish. And that is why Jesus commanded to baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" to "wash away your sins" and make "a new creature" who is able to come to faith in the Lord and "partake of the divine nature", and why whole households including children were baptized during the first centuries of Christianity. That biblical doctrine is also the doctrine of the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church and all the Protestant churches that baptize infants for salvation.
'''No. You preach wrath on all who do not (and cannot) confess with faith that Jesus Christ is their own personal Lord and Savior and be justified by faith alone, which excludes from salvation by faith alone all newborn babies who die and all who have no opportunity to believe and have faith in him simply because they are unable. <br>The Catholic Church preaches the biblical doctrine of mercy by water baptism of all who are helpless "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", including babies, and mercy to those who wished for water baptism but died before being baptized with water and the Spirit, and mercy to those who would have accepted Christian baptism if they had only known that Jesus said, "Except one be born again by water and the Spirit, one cannot enter the kingdom of God." Baptism ''ex opere operato'' now saves by the washing of water with the word of prayer. God is merciful to all who are helpless and are brought to him. You damn to the lake of fire all who die without being able to confess with their lips faith in Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.
'''You object that I condemn you for your faith. I condemn a defective and false faith, as did all of Protestantism, Orthodoxy and Catholicism in the 16th century, a faith that they all with one accord condemned as an antichrist doctrine contradicting the Bible itself, the '''''credobaptist doctrine of salvation by faith alone''''' to be believed and confessed before participating in the performance of a testimonial symbolic baptism which excludes from salvation all newborns, infants, babies and children in arms who die, simply because they do not believe and do not confess with their lips unto salvation that Jesus Christ died for them as their own personal Lord and Savior and teaches that when they die without believing and confessing this faith alone they are condemned to suffer eternal torment in the lake of fire and have no rest by day or by night.
'''No one believes in [[Bible|God's word]] as long as they reject the plain and simple-to-understand list of clear biblical passages requiring salvation by water baptism and the Spirit.