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Talk:Infant baptism (view source)
Revision as of 05:06, November 18, 2019
, 05:06, November 18, 2019→Bring forth the scriptures that say "baptism cannot save"
:::::::::::::*''Ye are gods''
:::::::::::::*''Ye are gods''
:::::::::::::[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 20:21, 17 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 20:21, 17 November 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::::Not necessary. A newborn infant is incapable of your requirement: A helpless newborn infant, baby, child in arms that cannot walk or understand the mind of Christ "'''''without which no man can see God'''''" (according to your own words) does not have cognitive ability to understand the gospel '''simple enough for a child to understand''', does not "have the mind of Christ", cannot "confess with the lips" (Romans 10:9), and therefore cannot fulfill your requirement for salvation, <br>"''what is required for salvation. The answer is metanoia - repentance - a change of heart and change of mind. A change of heart and mind in your attitude toward God, sin, and what God says about sin.''" <br>'''Your doctrine requires this to be saved'''. <br> A newborn baby and infant, a child in arms, is utterly incapable of being able to fulfill what you yourself say is "''required for salvation. . .repentance - a change of heart and '''change of mind'''. A change of heart and mind in'' [the infant's] ''attitude toward God, sin, and what God says about sin.''" --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 20:28, 17 November 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::::Not necessary. A newborn infant is incapable of '''your requirement:''' A helpless newborn infant, baby, child in arms that cannot walk or understand the mind of Christ "'''''without which no man can see God'''''" (according to '''your own words''') does not have cognitive ability to understand the gospel '''simple enough for a child to understand''', does not "have the mind of Christ", cannot "confess with the lips" (Romans 10:9), and therefore cannot fulfill '''your requirement for salvation''', <br>"''what is required for salvation. The answer is metanoia - repentance - a change of heart and change of mind. A change of heart and mind in your attitude toward God, sin, and what God says about sin.''" <br>'''Your doctrine requires this to be saved'''. <br> A newborn baby and infant, a child in arms, is utterly incapable of being able to fulfill '''what you yourself say''' is "''required for salvation. . .repentance - a change of heart and '''change of mind'''. A change of heart and mind in'' [the infant's] ''attitude toward God, sin, and what God says about sin.''" --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 20:28, 17 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::''Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation—'' 1 Peter 2:2
:::::::::::::::''Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation—'' 1 Peter 2:2
:::::::::::::::says nothing of water baptism What your doctrine is distinctly lacking is, ''a desire for pure spiritual milk''. Your doctrine is grounded and focused on condemnation - the threat of hell (which of course, ''is no gospel at all''). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 20:36, 17 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::says nothing of water baptism What your doctrine is distinctly lacking is, ''a desire for pure spiritual milk''. Your doctrine is grounded and focused on condemnation - the threat of hell (which of course, ''is no gospel at all''). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 20:36, 17 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::And if you think that sounds crazy, you are just exercising Pride - the original sin. ''God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise.'' ''Ye must become as little children.'' [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 20:59, 17 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::And if you think that sounds crazy, you are just exercising Pride - the original sin. ''God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise.'' ''Ye must become as little children.'' [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 20:59, 17 November 2019 (EST)
::Praise God! You're getting baptized in the Spirit now! Today, if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts... [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 21:06, 17 November 2019 (EST)
::Praise God! You're getting baptized in the Spirit now! Today, if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts... [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 21:06, 17 November 2019 (EST)
A newborn infant cannot fulfill '''your requirement for salvation''' according to '''your own words''', <br> <big>"what is '''required for salvation'''. The answer is '''metanoia - repentance - a change of heart and change of mind. A change of heart and mind in your attitude toward God, sin, and what God says about sin'''."</big> <br> Your requirement of ''metanoia'' with ''a change of mind and heart'' and a '''conscious understanding''' of all these things "'''so simple a child can understand'''" condemns to hell and the lake of fire every uncomprehending baby that cannot understand and has died within an hour of birth, simply because it had no personal conscious faith in Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior and did not understand and come to "'''''metanoia - repentance - a change of heart and change of mind. A change of heart and mind in your attitude toward God, sin, and what God says about sin'''''"—''what you say (in your own words) "is required for salvation"''. <br> The Catholic Church condemns such a monstrous doctrine of cruelty, the legalistic requiring of a helpless newborn what the child is utterly incompetent to do and cannot fulfill, and by holding to a false doctrine condemned as "antichrist" '''deliberately depriving them of the salvation of their souls by the water-washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit when they are infants and most at risk of death'''. <br>Whenever possible, since the first century, the Christian Church east and west baptizes by regeneration through water baptism all infants brought to the "laver of regeneration" because they were conceived in the original sin of Adam, since in Adam '''all die''', and '''death passed to all''', since '''all have sinned''', and there is '''none righteous, no not one'''. Infants are baptized by water and the Spirit '''''without your requirement of conscious understanding and metanoia and a change of heart and mind in their attitude toward God, sin and what God says about sin'''''. The Church freely baptizes the uncomprehending infant for salvation unto justification, freely, as an act of mercy commanded by the Lord himself (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:16) precisely '''because''' newborn infants and babies have no capacity for '''what you have said is required for salvation''', and simply because at this time in their lives they cannot personally resist or place any personal obstacle in the way of the grace of the sacrament "poured out upon" them. <br>In stark contrast to '''your requirement of metanoia, a change of mind and a change of heart in the newborn's attitude toward God, sin, and what God says about sin''', all the Church really requires is the simple act of "''the washing of water with the word''", which ''ex opere operato'' in the very doing of the act ordained by Christ saves them "''in virtue of his own mercy, by the water-washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we may be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life''" '''''because Jesus himself said,''' "''Except one be regenerated by water and the Spirit, one cannot enter the kingdom of God''". '''Ephesians 5:25-27; Titus 3:5; John 3:5'''. <br>--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 00:06, 18 November 2019 (EST)