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Talk:Infant baptism (view source)
Revision as of 14:11, November 18, 2019
, 14:11, November 18, 2019→Cruel doctrine: I'll stop there, and wait for a response (if any, after I again destroyed your errant use of scripture).
;Authoritative scripture
;Authoritative scripture
*He who despises the word brings destruction on himself. When anyone turns away from hearing the word of God, even his prayer is an abomination. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Proverbs%2013%3A13 Proverbs 13:13] [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Proverbs%2028%3A9 and 28:9]
*He who despises the word brings destruction on himself. When anyone turns away from hearing the word of God, even his prayer is an abomination. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Proverbs%2013%3A13 Proverbs 13:13] [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Proverbs%2028%3A9 and 28:9]
*Unless one is regenerated by water and the Spirit, one cannot enter the kingdom of God. [http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/3-5.htm John 3:5 "regenerated" '''γεννεθή''' ''gennethe'' interlinear text] <br>from [http://biblehub.com/greek/1080 '''γεννάω''' ''gennao'' "procreate, regenerate"].[https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/John%203%3A5 John 3:5]
:*A message of condemnation. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*Unless one is regenerated by water and the Spirit, one cannot enter the kingdom of God. [http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/3-5.htm John 3:5 regenerated" '''γεννεθή''' ''gennethe'' interlinear text] <br>from [http://biblehub.com/greek/1080 '''γεννάω''' ''gennao'' "procreate, regenerate"].[https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/John%203%3A5 John 3:5]
:*Water, here in spiritual language, mean "the word". [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*He who believes and is baptized will be '''saved'''; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16
*He who believes and is baptized will be '''saved'''; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16
:*Note: the verse does not say "not baptized."
*Baptism '''saves''' you now. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/1Peter%203%3A21 1 Peter 3:21]
*Baptism '''saves''' you now. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/1Peter%203%3A21 1 Peter 3:21]
:"Redun. See above. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*This is he who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only but with the water and the blood. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/1John%205%3A6 1 John 5:6]
*This is he who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only but with the water and the blood. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/1John%205%3A6 1 John 5:6]
:*Again, water = word, unless you're speaking of the amniotic sack, which likewise shoots holes in your wholetheory. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/1John%205%3A8 1 John 5:8]
*There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/1John%205%3A8 1 John 5:8]
*Jesus '''saves''' us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Titus%203%3A5 Titus 3:5]
*Jesus '''saves''' us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Titus%203%3A5 Titus 3:5]
:*Yep. The Spirit, the Word, and the blood. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*Go forth and make disciples of all nations, Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Matthew%2028%3A19 Matthew 28:19]
*Go forth and make disciples of all nations, Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Matthew%2028%3A19 Matthew 28:19]
:*''baptizing them with the word = immersing them in the word. ''These words I speak unto you, the are spirit and they are life.'' [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*With our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews%2010%3A22 Hebrews 10:22]
*With our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews%2010%3A22 Hebrews 10:22]
:*''evil conscience''. There is therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*The whole church is sanctified by Christ, cleansing her by the washing of water with the word. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Ephesians%205%3A26 Ephesians 5:26]
*The whole church is sanctified by Christ, cleansing her by the washing of water with the word. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Ephesians%205%3A26 Ephesians 5:26]
:*water = word (key verse). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*Be baptized, and wash away your sins. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%2022%3A16 Acts 22:16]
*Be baptized, and wash away your sins. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%2022%3A16 Acts 22:16]
:*Right. Only Christ washes away sins, not you. Be immersed in the word. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*Be baptized. The promise of '''salvation''' is to you and to your children. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%202%3A38 Acts 2:38] [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%202%3A39 and 2:39]
*Be baptized. The promise of '''salvation''' is to you and to your children. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%202%3A38 Acts 2:38] [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%202%3A39 and 2:39]
:*Be immersed in the word.
*Let the children come to me, and do not forbid them, for to such as these belongs the kingdom of God. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%2018%3A16 Luke 18:16]
*Let the children come to me, and do not forbid them, for to such as these belongs the kingdom of God. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%2018%3A16 Luke 18:16]
:*Historically, Roman Catholic doctrine inserts this verse here to pitch a gospel of works, ''which is no gospel at all''.
*Verily, verily, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall not enter it. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%2018%3A17 Luke 18:17]
*Verily, verily, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall not enter it. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%2018%3A17 Luke 18:17]
:*Read this verse and study it. He is speaking adults, not children. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*Unless one is regenerated by water and the Spirit, one cannot enter the kingdom of God. John 3:5
*Unless one is regenerated by water and the Spirit, one cannot enter the kingdom of God. John 3:5
:*regenerated by water = word
*God is not willing that any should perish. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/2Peter%203%3A9 2 Peter 3:9]
*God is not willing that any should perish. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/2Peter%203%3A9 2 Peter 3:9]
:*While a message of hope, in this context it is being used by the poster as a message of condemnation. ''Beware ye scribes and Pharisees''. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*We are buried with Christ '''in baptism''', in which we are raised again through faith in '''the working of God, God making us alive together with him'''. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Colossians%202%3A12 Colossians 2:12] [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Colossians%2012%3A13 and 2:13]
*We are buried with Christ '''in baptism''', in which we are raised again through faith in '''the working of God, God making us alive together with him'''. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Colossians%202%3A12 Colossians 2:12] [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Colossians%2012%3A13 and 2:13]
*To the thirsty I will give water without price from the fountain of the water of life. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Revelation%2021%3A6 Revelation 21:6]
*To the thirsty I will give water without price from the fountain of the water of life. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/Revelation%2021%3A6 Revelation 21:6]
:*Here, the poster faces a real problem; (a) he argues that infant water baptism is figurative, while also quoting ''baptism saves you now'', but then denies salvation in the flesh and claims it only applies to an afterlife. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 09:11, 18 November 2019 (EST)
*A fountain springing up to eternal life. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/John%204%3A14 John 4:14]
*A fountain springing up to eternal life. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/John%204%3A14 John 4:14]
*For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/1Corinthians%2012%3A3 1 Corinthians 12:13]
*For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. [https://biblegateway.com/verse/en/1Corinthians%2012%3A3 1 Corinthians 12:13]