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→Is there really a need for rancorous debate on this subject?: reply
::Aquinas: Infants aren't capable of the movement of free choice, [but if they are loved, and are treated with enough patience, they have the calmness for the movement of choice to begin as well as the shaping of justice as is about to be described]. God moves the infant to justice [through the guardians, as understood by the guardians' faith, and led by their hope in Christ], by outward sign, allowing the infant to be baptized. The [leading hope in Christ by] outward sign is necessary because original vice is not willed by the infant, but is from carnal generation, and the infant is justified from it [by the shaped movements of justice, as described, through leading hope], and neither is grace (or favor at Christ's expense), but [by the shaped movements of justice, as described, through leading hope,] the infant can receive spiritual regeneration by Christ through grace. [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Thursday, 18:12, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
::Aquinas: Infants aren't capable of the movement of free choice, [but if they are loved, and are treated with enough patience, they have the calmness for the movement of choice to begin as well as the shaping of justice as is about to be described]. God moves the infant to justice [through the guardians, as understood by the guardians' faith, and led by their hope in Christ], by outward sign, allowing the infant to be baptized. The [leading hope in Christ by] outward sign is necessary because original vice is not willed by the infant, but is from carnal generation, and the infant is justified from it [by the shaped movements of justice, as described, through leading hope], and neither is grace (or favor at Christ's expense), but [by the shaped movements of justice, as described, through leading hope,] the infant can receive spiritual regeneration by Christ through grace. [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Thursday, 18:12, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
:::I guess it all hangs on what Aquinas means by "outward sign". I'd read his summary phrase to say the "infant can receive spiritual regeneration by Christ through grace by outward sign". It's a soft sell, comforting for parents to hear, but has no bearing on an infant's salvation. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Live Free or Die]]</sup> 18:54, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
:::I guess it all hangs on what Aquinas means by "outward sign". I'd read his summary phrase to say the "infant can receive spiritual regeneration by Christ through grace by outward sign". It's a soft sell, comforting for parents to hear, but has no bearing on an infant's salvation. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Live Free or Die]]</sup> 18:54, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
::::I wanted to be explicit and make sure that "outward sign" part was included because it couldn't be left out. The rite of baptism is understood as an indispensible part of the faith, and with the creed, what holds the faith community together. The word Aquinas actually uses is "sacrament", for which there is a whole doctrine discussing and defining with it, but sacraments are received in hope of their efficacy as part of the whole faith. But if there is an insuperable obstacle to receiving the sacrament, it then depends on your willingness, so long as it is unmixed with "hatred of religion". [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Thursday, 19:54, 7 May 2020 (EDT)