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→Is there really a need for rancorous debate on this subject?: reply
::::I wanted to be explicit and make sure that "outward sign" part was included because it couldn't be left out. The rite of baptism is understood as an indispensible part of the faith, and with the creed, what holds the faith community together. The word Aquinas actually uses is "sacrament", for which there is a whole doctrine discussing and defining it, but sacraments are received in hope of their efficacy as part of the whole faith. But if there is an insuperable obstacle to receiving the sacrament, it then depends on your willingness, so long as it is unmixed with "hatred of religion". [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Thursday, 19:54, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
::::I wanted to be explicit and make sure that "outward sign" part was included because it couldn't be left out. The rite of baptism is understood as an indispensible part of the faith, and with the creed, what holds the faith community together. The word Aquinas actually uses is "sacrament", for which there is a whole doctrine discussing and defining it, but sacraments are received in hope of their efficacy as part of the whole faith. But if there is an insuperable obstacle to receiving the sacrament, it then depends on your willingness, so long as it is unmixed with "hatred of religion". [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Thursday, 19:54, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
:::::It's all just theological stuff, kinda like the Muslim Imams who write fatwas on having sex with a menstruous woman. Salvation isn't gained by scholarship, neither is it denied for lack of scholarship. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Live Free or Die]]</sup> 21:13, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
:::::It's all just theological stuff, kinda like the Muslim Imams who write fatwas on having sex with a menstruous woman. Salvation isn't gained by scholarship, neither is it denied for lack of scholarship. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Live Free or Die]]</sup> 21:13, 7 May 2020 (EDT)
::::::Sure, it's a matter of faith, not knowledge, but maybe wisdom isn't acquired in any other way. [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Thursday, 23:01, 7 May 2020 (EDT)