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→Vargas comments: reply
:::::[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 09:25, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
:::::[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 09:25, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
::::::What Nishant, and Dataclarifier as well, fail to see is, this pious sounding flowery rhetoric (a) denies who Christ is and (b) contradicts the Good News of the gospel (''he hath perfected them for ever''). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 09:40, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
::::::What Nishant, and Dataclarifier as well, fail to see is, this pious sounding flowery rhetoric (a) denies who Christ is and (b) contradicts the Good News of the gospel (''he hath perfected them for ever''). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 09:40, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
::::The idea of transubstantiation, as XavierNishant presented it, presupposes the premise that the Holy Sacraments are sacrifices.
::::I have: "He has achieved the eternal perfection of all whom he is sanctifying." (NJB) In Greek, the word for ''perfection'' is τελειότητα ''teleiotes'', which is different from the English use, meaning perfect ''for the purpose for which it was intended.''
::::I think this means for a man's soul as an accountable moral agent, who is delivered from the wages of sin so long as his faith remains. But a man's soul as an agent of spiritual health may require remedial or preventive sacraments which symbolize the sacrifice of a contrite heart or a sacrifice of worldly goods to maintain a heart in a spirit of grateful generosity. [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Sunday, 08:38, 12 July 2020 (EDT)
==Is there a Purgatory before Judgment day==
==Is there a Purgatory before Judgment day==