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/* Debate: Is the Roman Catholic doctrine of grace biblical */ minor edit - links for Bible refs cited, and removal of duplicated sentence
:::Let's go a step further: Jesus says we are sexless in the afterlife (''they neither marry nor are given in marriage''); the Roman church, with a cute little piece of deception, declares Mary a "Mediatrix". What a farce! And they've had 2,000 years to add this kind of nonsense and garbage to ''render the word of God to no effect''. Why? So they can continue in their pride and not humble themselves before God. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 10:26, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
::::[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus+3%3A1&version=DRA;KJV;ESV;NABRE '''Titus 3:1''' ] and [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus+3%3A9-11&version=DRA;KJV;ESV;NABRE '''3:9-11''']--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 11:10, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
:::::Oh, so Paul commanded that Christians be in submission to Hitler, Stalin, and Xi Jinping. That's encouraging. But it would need it's own Debate page after we resolve whether the Roman Catholic church preaches a gospel of law and wrath or a gospel of grace and salvation. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 11:26, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
::::::Deceptive [[sophistry]], [[putting words into someone's mouth]] by a strategy of [[misrepresentation]]. The authority of Christ dwelling by his Holy Spirit in the Church he established, against which the gates of hell (represented by those three despots you mention) shall not prevail, is a '''higher''' authority than the authority of Hitler, Stalin, and Xi Jinping, because Jesus established the authority of the church he built firmly on a rock by his divine word. The word of God commands obedience to the leaders who spoke the word of God and watch over our souls (Hebrews 13:7,13; 1 Peter 5:5-6). That obedience "trumps" the authority of evil despots and dictators who defile human dignity and hate Judaeo-Christian morality, such as Nebuchadnezzar who commanded the three children of Israel to commit idolatry by bowing to a pagan image (not a Christian iconic image of holiness), or Antiochus IV Epiphanes who commanded the followers of Judaism not to obey the dictates of the law and tore up copies of the Torah and demanded eating swine's flesh and offer incense to Greek images of the pagan gods who are not Christian saints, and the Sanhedrin who commanded the apostles of the Lord not to preach and teach in the name of Jesus, and antichristian despots and terrorist regimes who command establishment of legislation for the abolition of Christian worship in any form and authorize destroying Bibles and churches and slaughtering of Christians. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 11:45, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
::Let me pause momentarily for a comment on ''render unto Caesar''; in both Catholic and Protestant sermons I've heard this to mean, "pay your taxes", while the teaching here, which is before everybody's face, is usually ignored. Jesus asks, ''Whose image and inscription is this?''. Man was created in God's image. Render unto God what is God's. Jesus is saying, render yourself unto God, this is by far a more important teaching for the Christian believer than "pay your taxes". [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 12:23, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
:::The leaders of the Church are likewise the image of God. They are living stones ([https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 +Peter +2:4%3A4-5). TThey are living stones (&version=DRA;KJV;ESV;NABRE 1 Peter 2:4-5]). And they have authority established by God for there is no authority except what God has established, as given by him from the Holy Spirit distributing his gifts to them for their ministry, and whoever resists the authority receives condemnation. Render yourself unto God under their established authority which they have from him as instituted and ordained by him. Jesus told his representatives sent by him, "Whoever hears you hears Me, and whoever hears Me hears him who sent Me." They are ambassadors of God, as if God speaks by them, they urge you in the name of God, "Be reconciled to God." --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 12:30, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
::::There you are again. Preaching the authority of men and not the authority of God. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]]</sup> 12:36, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
:::::They have the authority established by God, the authority of God as his ambassadors, "God as it were speaking by us. We beseech you in the place of Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:20.. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 12:44, 25 August 2020 (EDT)
