Changes

:I can tell you where I got that information on Walt's rendition having coincidental similarities to the one we DID get, at least: It was first stated in ''Treasures Untold: The Making of Disney's 'The Little Mermaid''', a documentary featurette included in the 2006 DVD release as a bonus feature. It also was mentioned again by John Musker in the audio commentary for the Platinum Edition for the same movie. I guess that seems to imply that Disney wanted to do a full-length animated feature at some point for The Little Mermaid as well as planning to do an animated short for MGM. Wouldn't be the first time Disney would do something like that. Cinderella technically started off as an animated short by Disney, but then he made the full-length feature film we all know and love sometime later. And as far as the bit about what liberals say and the contrast of going solely for Eric, who says it can't be both? She clearly already dreamed about actually wanting to become human, at the very least experiencing the human world, so it's not like she only desired to become human because of Eric. But on the other hand, Eric WAS a major factor in her actually GAINING the determination to become human. Before then, she merely had an aspiration rather than an actual plan to get there or even an endpoint. Besides, I'm doubtful God necessarily forbade women from taking action if needs be. Heck, one of our saints, [[Joan of Arc]], actually became that precisely because of that in the name of God himself (not to mention being burned at the stake by consequence). Also, it was only fairly recently that The Little Mermaid was actually marketed as a girl's film. Back in the early 1990s, it actually was geared to kids of all ages, implicitly saying both sexes could watch it. As for me, I actually liken it to an action film, to be honest. Almost like Dragon Ball Z, if you want a good comparison. So a straight guy like me actually COULD enjoy the film (if anything, I'm more irritated at their insistence at marketing it exclusively to girls. Same goes with Aladdin, and that movie actually WAS a guy's film.). And personally, I actually preferred the Disney version to Hans Christian Andersen's rendition, not caring if the latter's the original (to be honest, I honestly felt THAT book promoted selfish rebellion FAR more than the Disney version did, especially when the mermaid STILL got what she wanted in the end, DESPITE her sisters, her grandmother, and her father meeting misfortune as a direct result of HER actions and them NOT being alleviated of it, despite their doing absolutely NOTHING to deserve it outside of MAYBE the grandma admitting merpeople lacked souls (which if you ask me was an EXTREMELY stupid plot point. You expect me to believe that sapient lifeforms like mermaids, who resembled us humans, who were created to be God's ultimate creations, hence why we have souls, would LACK souls themselves. That would point to God screwing up, which is NOT something I want to see of God.). Actually, if you ask me, the ending SHOULD have been that the mermaid gets the soul for sparing the prince, but then is sent to Hell for the other selfish actions she did in the story, not have her become a daughter of the air. Seriously, at least Ariel cleaned up HER mess late in the film and ensured EVERYONE got a happy ending, not just her. So that was a definite improvement. And I really always found sad endings to be extremely overrated anyhow.). And I had a similar experience with Beauty and the Beast, albeit in reverse. Used to have fondness for Belle. But nearly being brainwashed in College by radical leftists as well as doing personal study of the causes of the French Revolution, plus Linda Woolverton's not only constantly propping Belle up by kicking down her predecessors, but actually having the gall to claim that her trashy Maleficent movie was derived from BATB pretty much wrecked that fondness for Belle (to be fair, I still have a small amount left, so she got off easy compared to the Rebel Alliance thanks to similar boasting from George Lucas, but still...). [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 16:49, June 28, 2022 (EDT)

:I can tell you where I got that information on Walt's rendition having coincidental similarities to the one we DID get, at least: It was first stated in ''Treasures Untold: The Making of Disney's 'The Little Mermaid''', a documentary featurette included in the 2006 DVD release as a bonus feature. It also was mentioned again by John Musker in the audio commentary for the Platinum Edition for the same movie. I guess that seems to imply that Disney wanted to do a full-length animated feature at some point for The Little Mermaid as well as planning to do an animated short for MGM. Wouldn't be the first time Disney would do something like that. Cinderella technically started off as an animated short by Disney, but then he made the full-length feature film we all know and love sometime later. And as far as the bit about what liberals say and the contrast of going solely for Eric, who says it can't be both? She clearly already dreamed about actually wanting to become human, at the very least experiencing the human world, so it's not like she only desired to become human because of Eric. But on the other hand, Eric WAS a major factor in her actually GAINING the determination to become human. Before then, she merely had an aspiration rather than an actual plan to get there or even an endpoint. Besides, I'm doubtful God necessarily forbade women from taking action if needs be. Heck, one of our saints, [[Joan of Arc]], actually became that precisely because of that in the name of God himself (not to mention being burned at the stake by consequence). Also, it was only fairly recently that The Little Mermaid was actually marketed as a girl's film. Back in the early 1990s, it actually was geared to kids of all ages, implicitly saying both sexes could watch it. As for me, I actually liken it to an action film, to be honest. Almost like Dragon Ball Z, if you want a good comparison. So a straight guy like me actually COULD enjoy the film (if anything, I'm more irritated at their insistence at marketing it exclusively to girls. Same goes with Aladdin, and that movie actually WAS a guy's film.). And personally, I actually preferred the Disney version to Hans Christian Andersen's rendition, not caring if the latter's the original (to be honest, I honestly felt THAT book promoted selfish rebellion FAR more than the Disney version did, especially when the mermaid STILL got what she wanted in the end, DESPITE her sisters, her grandmother, and her father meeting misfortune as a direct result of HER actions and them NOT being alleviated of it, despite their doing absolutely NOTHING to deserve it outside of MAYBE the grandma admitting merpeople lacked souls (which if you ask me was an EXTREMELY stupid plot point. You expect me to believe that sapient lifeforms like mermaids, who resembled us humans, who were created to be God's ultimate creations, hence why we have souls, would LACK souls themselves. That would point to God screwing up, which is NOT something I want to see of God.). Actually, if you ask me, the ending SHOULD have been that the mermaid gets the soul for sparing the prince, but then is sent to Hell for the other selfish actions she did in the story, not have her become a daughter of the air. Seriously, at least Ariel cleaned up HER mess late in the film and ensured EVERYONE got a happy ending, not just her. So that was a definite improvement. And I really always found sad endings to be extremely overrated anyhow.). And I had a similar experience with Beauty and the Beast, albeit in reverse. Used to have fondness for Belle. But nearly being brainwashed in College by radical leftists as well as doing personal study of the causes of the French Revolution, plus Linda Woolverton's not only constantly propping Belle up by kicking down her predecessors, but actually having the gall to claim that her trashy Maleficent movie was derived from BATB pretty much wrecked that fondness for Belle (to be fair, I still have a small amount left, so she got off easy compared to the Rebel Alliance thanks to similar boasting from George Lucas, but still...). [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 16:49, June 28, 2022 (EDT)

Ariel cleaning up her mess? Don’t get me wrong, she did try, as after Ursula apparently won in the end, she tries to avenge her father right away, and does save Eric from being blasted, which did lead to Eric killing Ursula, and saving her father and the merpeople that fell victim to Ursula’s deception, but a lot of that was on Eric wanting to save her rather than Ariel playing housewife. Although to her credit once again, she was ready to accept that her and Eric were not meant to be (Shout-out to Glen Keane for animating Ariel especially in this scene he did a great job). As for the “Girl film” comment, maybe you’re right when you said “marketed” but one of Jeffrey Katzenberg’s concerns was that The Little Mermaid wouldn’t do well as he thought it was a girl’s film. Although he backpedaled before the film came out. 19:38, June 28, 2022 (EDT)

Ariel cleaning up her mess? Don’t get me wrong, she did try, as after Ursula apparently won in the end, she tries to avenge her father right away, and does save Eric from being blasted, which did lead to Eric killing Ursula, and saving her father and the merpeople that fell victim to Ursula’s deception, but a lot of that was on Eric wanting to save her rather than Ariel playing housewife. Although to her credit once again, she was ready to accept that her and Eric were not meant to be (Shout-out to Glen Keane for animating Ariel especially in this scene he did a great job). As for the “Girl film” comment, maybe you’re right when you said “marketed” but one of Jeffrey Katzenberg’s concerns was that The Little Mermaid wouldn’t do well as he thought it was a girl’s film. Although he backpedaled before the film came out. [[User:Admiral_Farmer|Admiral_Farmer]] ([[User talk:Admiral_Farmer|talk]]) 19:38, June 28, 2022 (EDT)

:True, but then again, she DID save Eric from being blasted by Ursula (even disabled her means of long-reaching observance in the process, aka, her pet eels), thus ENSURING he could ram her with the derelict ship, and she DID attack Ursula with enough force to actually stun her temporarily shortly after Triton was cursed. Plus it allowed Eric to pay Ariel back twice for the two times she saved him, so not like I have any reason to complain about that bit. It's still a heck of a lot more of a clean-up than what the mermaid did in the original tale, where the only reason SHE ascended was due to literally not trying to stab the Prince and his bride in their sleep (and even THEN, just committing suicide by throwing herself into the waves, which in Catholic doctrines Suicide basically means you're going to Hell, meaning there was NO way she should have even gone to purgatory. Maybe if the storyline tried to justify that decision by revealing that the minute a mermaid dies outside of water, they release toxic particles as they dissolve that kill any land-dweller in the immediate area, it would have come across as an ACTUAL sacrifice showing she saved the Prince twice during that time and slightly redeems her [probably not enough to actually let her become a Daughter of the Air, though], rather than just flat out suicide especially when merely standing and letting herself be dissolved would have worked all the same.), and even when doing that, pretty much left her family and even the prince to some extent with misfortune and severe sadness anyways, heck, irreparable damage as well. And personally, when the beginning of the film has fighting off a shark or a huge-scale action-oriented final battle (not to mention the villains dying in a manner that's very reminiscent to the likes of Dragon Ball Z in fact), I would NOT call that a girl's movie, more like a guy's movie (the fact that Ariel, in mermaid form, anyways, was very scantily clad certainly helps as well). Besides, just because there's a female protagonist doesn't necessarily mean it's automatically a girl's movie or what have you, any more than a movie's automatically for guys just because a guy is the main protagonist. Just look at Metroid, for example, or Dead or Alive, or even Tomb Raider for that matter. Girls are the main protagonists in those entries, yet the actual intended audience is guys, even in the instances where it delves into romance. Same goes for Red Sonja or Lady Death, where they are the main protagonists of their stories, yet the actual works they star in are clearly intended for guys, not girls. In any case, Katzenberg's judgment isn't exactly the best when you get right down to it. He also predicted that The Lion King would be a huge bomb purely because, I kid you not, talking animals are in it. Clearly he forgot that The Little Mermaid had PLENTY of talking animals in there (pretty much all the underwater denizens who AREN'T merpeople/cecilians. In fact, I can literally count on my hand only a handful of undersea creatures that DON'T speak or even laugh at all), and even Aladdin had a talking animal that acted as one of the more popular characters in the movie, Iago. In fact, right now there's a growing consensus that Katzenberg's contribution to the Renaissance might have been overrated, and that if anything, it happened in SPITE of Katzenberg rather than because of it. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 20:11, June 28, 2022 (EDT)

:True, but then again, she DID save Eric from being blasted by Ursula (even disabled her means of long-reaching observance in the process, aka, her pet eels), thus ENSURING he could ram her with the derelict ship, and she DID attack Ursula with enough force to actually stun her temporarily shortly after Triton was cursed. Plus it allowed Eric to pay Ariel back twice for the two times she saved him, so not like I have any reason to complain about that bit. It's still a heck of a lot more of a clean-up than what the mermaid did in the original tale, where the only reason SHE ascended was due to literally not trying to stab the Prince and his bride in their sleep (and even THEN, just committing suicide by throwing herself into the waves, which in Catholic doctrines Suicide basically means you're going to Hell, meaning there was NO way she should have even gone to purgatory. Maybe if the storyline tried to justify that decision by revealing that the minute a mermaid dies outside of water, they release toxic particles as they dissolve that kill any land-dweller in the immediate area, it would have come across as an ACTUAL sacrifice showing she saved the Prince twice during that time and slightly redeems her [probably not enough to actually let her become a Daughter of the Air, though], rather than just flat out suicide especially when merely standing and letting herself be dissolved would have worked all the same.), and even when doing that, pretty much left her family and even the prince to some extent with misfortune and severe sadness anyways, heck, irreparable damage as well. And personally, when the beginning of the film has fighting off a shark or a huge-scale action-oriented final battle (not to mention the villains dying in a manner that's very reminiscent to the likes of Dragon Ball Z in fact), I would NOT call that a girl's movie, more like a guy's movie (the fact that Ariel, in mermaid form, anyways, was very scantily clad certainly helps as well). Besides, just because there's a female protagonist doesn't necessarily mean it's automatically a girl's movie or what have you, any more than a movie's automatically for guys just because a guy is the main protagonist. Just look at Metroid, for example, or Dead or Alive, or even Tomb Raider for that matter. Girls are the main protagonists in those entries, yet the actual intended audience is guys, even in the instances where it delves into romance. Same goes for Red Sonja or Lady Death, where they are the main protagonists of their stories, yet the actual works they star in are clearly intended for guys, not girls. In any case, Katzenberg's judgment isn't exactly the best when you get right down to it. He also predicted that The Lion King would be a huge bomb purely because, I kid you not, talking animals are in it. Clearly he forgot that The Little Mermaid had PLENTY of talking animals in there (pretty much all the underwater denizens who AREN'T merpeople/cecilians. In fact, I can literally count on my hand only a handful of undersea creatures that DON'T speak or even laugh at all), and even Aladdin had a talking animal that acted as one of the more popular characters in the movie, Iago. In fact, right now there's a growing consensus that Katzenberg's contribution to the Renaissance might have been overrated, and that if anything, it happened in SPITE of Katzenberg rather than because of it. [[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 20:11, June 28, 2022 (EDT)