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Talk:Income Redistribution (view source)
Revision as of 22:16, August 19, 2007
, 22:16, August 19, 2007response
::this is just nonsense.
::this is just nonsense.
:::Why is it nonsense? If the rich give their money to the poor through charity, isn't that voluntary income redistribution? Doesn't the existence of voluntary income redistrubution make involuntary redistrubution look that much more insidious? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 16:56, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
:::Why is it nonsense? If the rich give their money to the poor through charity, isn't that voluntary income redistribution? Doesn't the existence of voluntary income redistrubution make involuntary redistrubution look that much more insidious? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 16:56, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
::::Charity is an act or policy of government? C'mon now. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:16, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
:*''[[Liberal]]s generally support....an [[egalitarian]] view of [[economic justice]]''
:*''[[Liberal]]s generally support....an [[egalitarian]] view of [[economic justice]]''
::originally it even flatly stated "marxist or egalitartian." In the revised form here, it ''still'' was just disguised marxist propaganda.
::originally it even flatly stated "marxist or egalitartian." In the revised form here, it ''still'' was just disguised marxist propaganda.
:::My friend, I'm no Marxist, and i'm not in favor of an equal economic outcome for all people, but if we don't accurately portray the bases for belief, how can we debunk them? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 16:56, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
:::My friend, I'm no Marxist, and i'm not in favor of an equal economic outcome for all people, but if we don't accurately portray the bases for belief, how can we debunk them? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 16:56, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
::::So "marxist" is "egalitarian", right? [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:16, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
:As to the Ayn Rand material, all of it in CP needs to be reviewed. None of it appears accurate. Rand is being presented as saying a person born with a disability can starve to death, or a 75 year old unable to work likewise can perish. Until some balance is at least strived for, I intend to remove it all. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 15:07, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
:As to the Ayn Rand material, all of it in CP needs to be reviewed. None of it appears accurate. Rand is being presented as saying a person born with a disability can starve to death, or a 75 year old unable to work likewise can perish. Until some balance is at least strived for, I intend to remove it all. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 15:07, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
::Have you read any of Ayn Rand's work? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 16:56, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
::Have you read any of Ayn Rand's work? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 16:56, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
:::No. But I've listened to Greenspan speak since I was knee high to a grasshopper, and he was one of her students. And it's precisley because of her athiesm, I suppose, why I have never really read much of Ayn Rand. However, I find it very difficult to believe she was cold-hearted and wanted the elderly and disabbled to starve to death in a pure capitalist system.
:::I have been around the block dealing with marxist lies for decades. I know how Adam Smith is distorted and lied about by on college campuses. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Here's a typical example I've encountered many times, over many decades, and most recently in Wikipedia (Honestly, before even reading the page, ''I knew this lie & distortion would be there''):
:::'''A quote from Adam Smith'''
:::In Book 2, Chapter 3 of ''The Wealth of Nations'', [[Adam Smith]] wrote:
:::"There is one sort of labour which adds to the value of the subject upon which it is bestowed; there is another which has no such effect. The former, as it produces a value, may be called productive; the latter, unproductive labour. Thus the labour of a manufacturer adds, generally, to the value of the materials which he works upon, that of his own maintenance, and of his master's profit. The labour of a menial servant, on the contrary, adds to the value of nothing. Though the manufacturer has his wages advanced to him by his master, he, in reality, costs him no expense, the value of those wages being generally restored, together with a profit, in the improved value of the subject upon which his labour is bestowed. But the maintenance of a menial servant never is restored. A man grows rich by employing a multitude of manufacturers; he grows poor by maintaining a multitude of menial servants.
:::'''Of course, I (RobS) had to finsh the quote:
:::'''The labour of the latter, however, has its value, and deserves its reward as well" (Andrew Skinner edition 1974, p. 429-430). [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Productive_and_unproductive_labour&diff=106451910&oldid=101154076]
:::So no, I wouldn't know where to begin citing Ayn Rand's comments toward the elderly & disabled, however experience teachers me, someone who considers marxism 'egalitarian' is the last source I'd consider as having any credibitly whatsoever as to what Ayn Rand said or thought. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:16, 19 August 2007 (EDT)