Changes

::::::::::::: "''No scientist argues that what you call irreducibly complex emerged by "chance". It emerged by the opposite of "chance".''":  Yet chance is all you have left if you reject purpose and design.  Mutations are chance events, and natural selection selects for environments that come about by chance.

::::::::::::: "''No scientist argues that what you call irreducibly complex emerged by "chance". It emerged by the opposite of "chance".''":  Yet chance is all you have left if you reject purpose and design.  Mutations are chance events, and natural selection selects for environments that come about by chance.

::::::::::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 08:53, 4 February 2008 (EST)

::::::::::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 08:53, 4 February 2008 (EST)

::::::::::::::I told you right in the beginning that Galileo accompanied his finding with an alternative less literal interpretation of the bible. And he did point at his telescope, the article that you quoted yourself mentions explicitly that he showed dignitaries telescopes. And it also mentioned that he refused to give proof for some of his more outlandish claims, maybe because he didn't have it. But at no point did he offer pieces of scripture as replacement for observations. He then offered nothing, or acted condescending towards his peers.

::::::::::::::I told you right in the beginning that Galileo accompanied his finding with an alternative less literal interpretation of the bible. And he did point at his telescope, the article that you quoted yourself mentions explicitly that he showed dignitaries telescopes. And it also mentioned that he refused to give proof for some of his more outlandish claims, maybe because he didn't have it. But at no point did he offer pieces of scripture as replacement for observations. He then offered nothing, and acted condescending towards his peers.

::::::::::::::That god doesn't do it because of his nature, was one of the forbidden statements. You still would have been a heretic.  

::::::::::::::That god doesn't do it because of his nature, was one of the forbidden statements. You still would have been a heretic.  

::::::::::::::If one person supports an idea because of his Christian roots, and another rejects it because of the same root, the those roots do not matter. No matter who would have won the argument you could claim that it would be because of the Christian root, and there for this claim is vacuous.

::::::::::::::If one person supports an idea because of his Christian roots, and another rejects it because of the same roots, then those roots do not matter. No matter who would have won the argument, you could claim that it would be because of the Christian root either way, and therefore this claim is vacuous.

::::::::::::::I use deity and god as synonyms, because that is what they are.  

::::::::::::::I use deity and god as synonyms, because that is what they are.  

::::::::::::::So you play your little game with the different meaning of chance again. Environments do not come about by random chance, and after selection it isn't randomly distributed either. I am happy to take you along this argument again. Nobody claims what you claim this happens by chance. But why do you have such a hard time to admit that you take recourse to the heavens, rather than try to explain why it isn't random? [[User:Order|Order]] 20:06, 4 February 2008 (EST)

::::::::::::::So you play your little game with the different meanings of "chance" again. Environments do not come about by random chance, and after selection it isn't randomly distributed either. I am happy to take you along this argument again. Nobody claims what you claim to happen by chance. But why do you have such a hard time to admit that you take recourse to the heavens, rather than try to explain why it isn't random? [[User:Order|Order]] 20:06, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Cdesign proponentsists ==

== Cdesign proponentsists ==