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→Query: Most are NOT assumed.
:::::: So now we've switched from ''praying'' to ''talking about'' a religion? I must have missed that switch. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 00:20, 4 March 2008 (EST)
:::::: So now we've switched from ''praying'' to ''talking about'' a religion? I must have missed that switch. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 00:20, 4 March 2008 (EST)
::::::: Isn't praying a religion-specific speech act?-[[User:PhoenixWright|PhoenixWright]] 00:22, 4 March 2008 (EST)
::::::: Isn't praying a religion-specific speech act?-[[User:PhoenixWright|PhoenixWright]] 00:22, 4 March 2008 (EST)
:::::::: Huh? Yes, you could invent that term for it, but that's like saying that a robin is a bird, and a crow is a bird, so a robin is a crow. We were talking specifically about prayer. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 00:33, 4 March 2008 (EST)
Let's say you lived in northern new jersey in a mostly jewish town. If the teacher wanted to say the Shema before every class, which is a prayer which basically repudiated Christianity, what would you suggest for your kid?[[User:LeonardH|LeonardH]] 23:50, 3 March 2008 (EST)
Let's say you lived in northern new jersey in a mostly jewish town. If the teacher wanted to say the Shema before every class, which is a prayer which basically repudiated Christianity, what would you suggest for your kid?[[User:LeonardH|LeonardH]] 23:50, 3 March 2008 (EST)
: To witness to his fellow students. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 00:08, 4 March 2008 (EST)
: To witness to his fellow students. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 00:08, 4 March 2008 (EST)
::: Please show me where in my comment I said anything about witnessing ''during class time'', ''in a disruptive way'', or by ''pushing'' their beliefs on others. Or retract the comment. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 00:20, 4 March 2008 (EST)
::: Please show me where in my comment I said anything about witnessing ''during class time'', ''in a disruptive way'', or by ''pushing'' their beliefs on others. Or retract the comment. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 00:20, 4 March 2008 (EST)
::::I'm just trying to point out that encouraging students to speak up for themselves assumes (1) that children can and are willing to, and will always do so, (2) and that there will be no social consequences for them. What school child, surrounded by religions different than his own, will react first by trying to convert them, or defend themselves?-[[User:PhoenixWright|PhoenixWright]] 00:22, 4 March 2008 (EST)
::::I'm just trying to point out that encouraging students to speak up for themselves assumes (1) that children can and are willing to, and will always do so, (2) and that there will be no social consequences for them. What school child, surrounded by religions different than his own, will react first by trying to convert them, or defend themselves?-[[User:PhoenixWright|PhoenixWright]] 00:22, 4 March 2008 (EST)
::::: So you didn't show me where I said that, and you didn't retract it as requested.
::::: Encouraging a student to witness does assume that children can do so, but they can, so that's not an issue. It doesn't presume that they are willing; if anything it assumes the opposite, as you often ''encourage'' someone to do something that they are ''not'' willing to do. And for the same reason, neither does it assume that they ''will'' do so. Neither does it assume that there will be no social consequences, and neither have you explained the relevance of that. What school child will witness? One who has been taught sufficiently well to have confidence in himself and his beliefs, and one who has been encouraged to do so.
::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 00:33, 4 March 2008 (EST)