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Debate: Did the Founding Fathers intend to apply their personal faith to the nation "As an institution"? (view source)
Revision as of 02:52, September 7, 2008
, 02:52, September 7, 2008→Yes, they intended to establish the U.S.A. as "One nation under God"
:::I appreciate the reply, jp, but this keeps going in the same circles. I ''never'' tried to separate the ideas and inspirations of the founders from the formation of the nation - when you read my comments here and in related threads, I state the opposite. However, there's a difference between the inspiration one has, and what one does once inspired. The founders never used the phrase "under God" or included Biblical scripture in the Constitution, and explicitly removed tests of faith as a prerequisite for service in the Government.
:::I appreciate the reply, jp, but this keeps going in the same circles. I ''never'' tried to separate the ideas and inspirations of the founders from the formation of the nation - when you read my comments here and in related threads, I state the opposite. However, there's a difference between the inspiration one has, and what one does once inspired. The founders never used the phrase "under God" or included Biblical scripture in the Constitution, and explicitly removed tests of faith as a prerequisite for service in the Government.
:::Did the faith of the founders inspire them? Certainly. Did their faith lead to the intention to architect a government of based on morals, fairness, tolerance and respect? I'm sure it did. Did the each of the Christian founders believe that God was the ultimate authority under who's providence this nation was founded? I'm certain that was their stated belief ''as individuals''. However, when they had the chance to formalize this acknowledgment with something as simple as a mention of God in the preamble to the Constitution, they did not. "In God we trust" was added to currency years later by others, and the Pledge of Allegiance was altered in the 1950's. The actions of later generations doesn't alter the fact the in the actual, final establishment of the U.S. government, the founders intended that government to be secular in nature because of a belief in the principle that religion may inspire good government, but should not be institutionalized in government. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, so please show me evidence of the founders making religion part of the operating framework of the U.S. government. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 21:36, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
:::Did the faith of the founders inspire them? Certainly. Did their faith lead to the intention to architect a government of based on morals, fairness, tolerance and respect? I'm sure it did. Did the each of the Christian founders believe that God was the ultimate authority under who's providence this nation was founded? I'm certain that was their stated belief ''as individuals''. However, when they had the chance to formalize this acknowledgment with something as simple as a mention of God in the preamble to the Constitution, they did not. "In God we trust" was added to currency years later by others, and the Pledge of Allegiance was altered in the 1950's. The actions of later generations doesn't alter the fact the in the actual, final establishment of the U.S. government, the founders intended that government to be secular in nature because of a belief in the principle that religion may inspire good government, but should not be institutionalized in government. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, so please show me evidence of the founders making religion part of the operating framework of the U.S. government. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 21:36, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
::::You are right, this conversation is going in circles. You want me to prove "Christianity in the Constitution" , which has none. You want me to say the Founders views were separated from legislation created, which I will not. A Republic was created not a Theocracy. I will end my last reply on a few quotes. James Wilson, George Washington's appointment says "Christianity is part of the common-law." and Supreme Court Justice appointed by President James Madison, Joseph Story called America a "Christian country." Patrick Henry, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospels of Jesus Christ." Plus, the secular government that would not infringe on the religion of others...The Continental Congress, in 1777, recommended and approved that the Committee of Commerce "import 20,000 Bibles from Holland, Scotland, or elsewhere," because of the great need of the American people and the great shortage caused by the interruption of trade with England by the Revolutionary War.-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 22:52, 6 September 2008 (EDT)
==No, they did not intend to establish the U.S.A. as "One nation under God"==
==No, they did not intend to establish the U.S.A. as "One nation under God"==