Siteadmin, Bureaucrats, Check users, nsAm_Govt_101RO, nsAm_Govt_101RW, nsAm_Govt_101_ta, nsJudgesRO, nsJudgesRW, nsJudges_talkRO, nsJudges_talkRW, nsTeam2RO, nsTeam2RW, nsTeam2_talkRO, nsTeam2_talkRW, oversight, Administrators
125,793
edits
Changes
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
Line 167:
Line 167: + + + +
Talk:World History Lecture Eleven (view source)
Revision as of 19:15, April 24, 2009
, 19:15, April 24, 2009reply re: Trotsky and Orwell
::My main point is this: ''"Those who do not obey do not eat."'' was not Trotsky's motto or Stalin's motto. It is a statement from a book Trotsky wrote just before his death. Trotsky claimed it to be Stalin's new motto as a point of rhetoric in an argument against Stalin's brutal methods, specifically against the Bolsheviks and supporters of Trotsky. ''"Those who do not obey do not eat."'' might be what happens when a communist dictator is in command, but as far as Trotsky is concerned it was a specific reference to Stalin's starving out of his followers and Trotsky believed it to be the wrong way to run a government. --[[User:NicholasT|NicholasT]] 10:49, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
::My main point is this: ''"Those who do not obey do not eat."'' was not Trotsky's motto or Stalin's motto. It is a statement from a book Trotsky wrote just before his death. Trotsky claimed it to be Stalin's new motto as a point of rhetoric in an argument against Stalin's brutal methods, specifically against the Bolsheviks and supporters of Trotsky. ''"Those who do not obey do not eat."'' might be what happens when a communist dictator is in command, but as far as Trotsky is concerned it was a specific reference to Stalin's starving out of his followers and Trotsky believed it to be the wrong way to run a government. --[[User:NicholasT|NicholasT]] 10:49, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
::: The points above about Trotsky and Orwell are interesting, and I've spent some time without success trying to confirm t. Unfortunately, you don't provide any support for your claims. There's no doubt that Orwell fought against the communists, and that changed his view of them. There also seems to be no doubt that Trotsky said what the lecture states. The very, very subtle distinction between drawn above does not change the essential substance of the lecture, even if the claims are true.
::: I welcome a supported, well-written improvement on the lecture, but not something that would tend to confuse students with hairsplitting and debatable distinctions. Thanks and Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:15, 24 April 2009 (EDT)