Talk:Suicide

This needs some clarification, but I'm drawing a blank on how to do so. Killing oneself is not always suicide. For example, jumping on a grenade to save fellow soldiers is (in the case of mortal injury) killing oneself, but this isn't considered suicide. Any suggestions? ColinR 20:44, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

• Killing oneself is always suicide. According to Durkheim, a famous sociologist, he states that there are four different types of suicides. The example you mention above would be defined as altruistic suicide because it is killing oneself for the good of others.

Cut:

although some radical Islamic Mullahs (teachers) claim that if it is committed as part of a religious war, the suicide will be rewarded in Paradise.

Too controversial for such an off-hand reference. Should be more than a subordinate clause. --Ed Poor 11:54, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Self-sacrifice and self-destruction

Jumping on a grenade is not generally considered "suicide" but an act of self-sacrifice. However, storming a pill box has been described as a "suicidal charge".

Okay, let's get into it. Were the Japanese kamikaze "suicide bombers"? Is strapping yourself with explosives, entering a crowded bus or restaurant and detonating them an "murder-suicide" or what? --Ed Poor 11:57, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Cut from article:

Certain Islamist groups such as Al-Qaeda, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, however, say suicide is justified in attacks against infidels or apostate Muslims.

I have a number of objections to this sentence.

1. What in tarnation does Islamist mean?
2. Who cares what terrorists groups say - about anything?
3. Sources: Is there really a quote saying that suicide is a weapon for Muslims to use against non-Muslims? --Ed Poor 11:54, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

martyrdom is rewarded in the koran. it says that if you kill an infidel as a martyr you get the whole deal. i thought an islamist was a terrorist who uses islam to justify his acts.Bohdan

Please write about this in Martyrdom or Koran. I'd also like to see more about the difference between Islam (the religion) and Islamist (someone who uses Islam to justify terrorism or other nasty things. --Ed Poor 12:01, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

I'll try. Im not even sure thats what an islamist is though.Bohdan

No one else is, either. Wikipedia failed to address this problem and wound up with multiple articles like Islamofascist, Islamicist, Islamist, etc. We should have an article on the religion + ONE article on political use of Muslim religious ideas. --Ed Poor 12:14, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

agreedBohdan

request for expansion....

Any article on suicide would be incomplete without some mention of depression, which is treatable. Npov2 18:39, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Crime or sin

In an edit comment, MexMax asks "in what jurisdictions is suicide not a crime?".

I believe that here in Australia it's not considered a crime. So the "crime or sin" phrase in Australia would leave it saying that suicide is the sin of killing oneself, and whilst that would be true, many people who would not consider it a sin would still consider it suicide, so the definition in the article would not satisfy everyone. On the other hand, CSGuy's edit would imply (although it doesn't explicitly state) that whether or not it's a sin depends on one's religion, whereas it is either a sin or not a sin regardless of what one believes about it. So his wording is not perfect either.

My dictionary says that suicide is the deliberate killing of oneself, yet there's no mention of that in the introduction. And further to discussions above about self-sacrifice, I think the distinction is that suicide has the intention of killing oneself, whereas self-sacrifice has the intention of saving others, knowing that one will die in the process, but killing oneself is not the intention.

Philip J. Rayment 19:28, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Liberal bias

We're not going to allow liberal bias in this entry, or any other here. Hence the reversion.--Aschlafly 13:08, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I am puzzled. Is it "liberal bias" to state (as a simple definition) that suicide means the act of killing oneself, and then to move on to state that for a Christian it is a crime/sin? I thought it made more sense to deal with the simple fact before moving on to what might be seen as its interpretation in various religions. Humblpi 13:47, 18 February 2008 (EST)