Difference between revisions of "Talk:Fred Phelps"

Latest revision as of 17:41, July 9, 2011

NPOV

Well, I think we have a good NPOV version finally. Thanks to all who contributed! Rob Smith 12:32, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

Um, there's a category:Liberalism still at the bottom. Not very NPOV if you ask me. BobJ 12:59, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

Also, not that it's a POV issue, but it seems about 75% of the sentences in this article (or the first few sections anyway) start with "Phelps..." which is sort of stilted writing. BobJ 13:02, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

The Liberalism Template automatically puts it in Category:Liberalism. This is presumably because of (1) Phelps activist tendencies; (2) Phelps longtime Democratic party membership and associations; (3) Phelps repetition of the violent and openly hostile rhetoric of critics of conservatives and the conservative movement; (4) Phelps association with the ACLU. There's probably other reasons as well.

Please Be Bold in making the changes you suggest. Rob Smith 13:15, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

To respond (1) since when is activism confined to liberals? Many in the Tea Party are activists, but hardly liberal. (2) His associations with the Democrats seem tied to mostly the substantially less liberal South, and have long since passed. Does Strom Thurmond get a liberal template as well? (3) his criticisms of liberals are as strong, or more so, than his criticism of conservatives. (4) The ACLU is more libertarian than liberal, and are merely defending his constitutional rights anyway (as they have done for guys like Limbaugh and Ollie North) and have made no statements defending what he says, only his right to say it. BobJ 13:22, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

Tea Party are activists? That would imply they have some legitimate complaint and are not just a racist mob of rabble rousers. I'm not sure I understand. Rob Smith 13:30, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

Ha ha. Here's a link, there are plenty more: [1]. BobJ 13:36, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

Also, here's a quote from him, from one of the sources used in this article: "Phelps said Gore 'was the icon of the conservative faction of the Democratic Party' when he came to Kansas in 1988' (emphasis mine). "'He was strong pro-life, and he said he wasn't going to accept any money from homosexual groups, and things of that nature,' Phelps said. 'But there's no question in my mind that approximately in the late 1980s or the early 1990s he made a conscious decision that he wanted to be a successful national candidate, and he sold out on some of those critical social issues, because that's what he had to do to succeed nationally in the Democratic Party.' Doesn't exactly sound liberal. BobJ 13:41, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==No linking to Phelps's web sites==
+[[Talk:Fred Phelps/Archive 1]]
-They are not family appropriate, and Conservapedia is not a repository of hate speech. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 17:04, 16 March 2007 (EDT)
+==NPOV==
-: Would it be reasonable to add the prohibition of making and linking to hate speech one of the commandments? --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 17:21, 16 March 2007 (EDT)
+Well, I think we have a good NPOV version finally.  Thanks to all who contributed!  [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 12:32, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
-:: I think that's an excellent idea. I suggest bringing it up either on Aschlafly's Talk Page or Talk:Conservapedia Commandments. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 17:22, 16 March 2007 (EDT)
+:Um, there's a category:Liberalism still at the bottom. Not very NPOV if you ask me. [[User:BobJ|BobJ]] 12:59, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
-: I did not know that I shouldn't have linked to his websites.  However, could you please put into the opening paragraph that Fred Phelps' mission is against homosexuality?  As it is, this important fact is not mentioned until halfway down the page.  [[User:CEinhorn|CEinhorn]] 19:33, 16 March 2007 (EDT)
+:Also, not that it's a POV issue, but it seems about 75% of the sentences in this article (or the first few sections anyway) start with "Phelps..." which is sort of stilted writing. [[User:BobJ|BobJ]] 13:02, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
-:Will do. In fact, I'm going to unprotect this. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 22:55, 16 March 2007 (EDT)
+::The Liberalism Template automatically puts it in Category:Liberalism. This is presumably because of (1) Phelps activist tendencies; (2) Phelps longtime Democratic party membership and associations; (3) Phelps repetition of the violent and openly hostile rhetoric of critics of conservatives and the conservative movement; (4) Phelps association with the ACLU. There's probably other reasons as well.
+::Please Be Bold in making the changes you suggest.  [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 13:15, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
+:::To respond (1) since when is activism confined to liberals? Many in the Tea Party are activists, but hardly liberal. (2) His associations with the Democrats seem tied to mostly the substantially less liberal South, and have long since passed. Does Strom Thurmond get a liberal template as well? (3) his criticisms of liberals are as strong, or more so, than his criticism of conservatives. (4) The ACLU is more libertarian than liberal, and are merely defending his constitutional rights anyway (as they have done for guys like Limbaugh and Ollie North) and have made no statements defending what he says, only his right to say it. [[User:BobJ|BobJ]] 13:22, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
+::::Tea Party are activists? That would imply they have some legitimate complaint and are not just a racist mob of rabble rousers. I'm not sure I understand.   [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 13:30, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
-Surely the main authority on Phelps's teachings in Phelps himself? His sites should be linked to. I suggest doing so as plain text, not a clickable link, and alongside a warning notice.
+:::::Ha ha. Here's a link, there are plenty more: [http://www.teapartyactivists.com/]. [[User:BobJ|BobJ]] 13:36, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
+:::::Also, here's a quote from him, from one of the sources used in this article:  "Phelps said Gore 'was the icon of the '''conservative''' faction of the Democratic Party' when he came to Kansas in 1988' (emphasis mine). "'He was strong pro-life, and he said he wasn't going to accept any money from homosexual groups, and things of that nature,' Phelps said. 'But there's no question in my mind that approximately in the late 1980s or the early 1990s he made a conscious decision that he wanted to be a successful national candidate, and he sold out on some of those critical social issues, because that's what he had to do to succeed nationally in the Democratic Party.' Doesn't exactly sound liberal. [[User:BobJ|BobJ]] 13:41, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
-==Discussion of subject==
-I'm going to tentatively leave this in place, although it was intended to make Christians look bad by the original creator, he is a major news figure because of his funeral protests, and his actions have prompted major legislation regarding these (and he is also a major embarrassment to my home state, as well as a DEMOCRAT who actually campaigned for Al Gore in 1988 before he went on his anti-homosexual crusade).
-Also, I drove by his "church" once and I got a physical chill once I got within two blocks of it. I felt like I was in a place of true evil. Interestingly, the ZIP codes in Topeka, where he lives, all start with 666.  [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 03:26, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-I just moved it because it was under "Fred phelps," and the lack of proper capitalization was bothering me. I like to copy edit. :-p [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 03:29, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-If you looked at the original article as it was written, it contained some crude language. But thanks for working on the capitalization. It bothers me as well when articles are started like that.  [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 03:30, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-I agree with you completely. I didn't want to bother with the article at the time, and I'm glad someone else did. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 03:32, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-On a more humorous note, [http://www.barzelay.net/files/images/other/phelps.jpg this] was taken outside of Vandy when Phelps came to visit. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 03:52, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-I saw that picture for sale in a liberal store downtown once. It's so funny.
-One of Phelps's lackeys told my friend that his hair was too long once. (I live about 25 miles from Topeka, so we get a lot of him.) [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 03:51, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-:But everyone knows, Jesus doesn't like long hair... [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 03:52, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-::::This man makes me question the First Amendment, he is just that much of a evil being.--[[User:Elamdri|Elamdri]] 03:54, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-I know. His speech is beyond reasonable and just disgusting. I would guess that a majority of Kansans would support his execution.
-And Colin, you may be thinking of Paul :) [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 03:55, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-I know the feeling. I'm a huge believer in the importance of the First Amendment, especially free speech, but what he says is just so ridiculous it's hard to believe it's technically allowed. And MD, I was mostly referring to the fact that most men of Jesus' time had "longer" hair. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 04:03, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-That's what I thought. I don't like to judge other Christians' salvation, but I have to make an exception here for old Freddie. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 04:05, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
-: OK, I saw you reverted the article back after I added content about the extent of his hate speach.  There needs away for this to be stated, especially if you are going to allow the b.s. about militant homosexuals on the page.  Otherwise this article makes him come across as less insane than he is.--[[User:Jack|Jack]] 18:04, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
-::I agree. I just don't think that the word "fag" is appropriate for an article on this site. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 20:05, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
-::: The hate crimes against Fred Phelps section is uncited b.s. and I think it should be deleted unless someone can give any evidence beyond Phelps' own paranoia and delusional rantings.  I'm doing you a favor--Fred Phelps is not your friend. --[[User:Jack|Jack]] 11:02, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
-:::: I'm also taking out the Al Gore contributions part since that isn't cited either. --[[User:Jack|Jack]] 11:04, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
-== Liberal Edits by Jack ==
-please push your liberal views in an article about yourself.  This article is about Fred Phelps views, not yours. [[User:RightWolf2|RightWolf2]] 13:01, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
-:: Ummmm, liberal views? You say that as if it was a bad thing.  One of the commandments here is that claims need to be properly sourced.  This article is certainly making a lot of excuses regarding one of the most abhorrant men in America today.  He goes to military funerals with signs that say "God Hates F*gs".  That is an objective, well documented fact.  However, the sysops delete it from the main page.  However, completely unsubstantiated claims by Phelps that HE is the victim of hate crimes is allowed to be left up.  --[[User:Jack|Jack]] 22:05, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
-::The subject of an article and their public statements are reliable sources for an article.   Phelps is preaching the literal statements of the Bible.  In fact, he is at the most extreme end of the spectrum with the limits of free speech I have ever seen.   The article is about his views and him.   And he is certainly notable. [[User:RightWolf2|RightWolf2]] 22:16, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
-:::RightWolf2, please stop editing the article to claim that Phelps is "literally following the Bible", and please stop attacking Jack.  [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 02:36, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
-:::1.  Not an attack, but a statement of my views.  2. When admins and their buddies start forming cabals to reinforce each other, free editing goes out the window.  3.  I am over 60 years old, I am a competent attorney, and I am not here to rain on anyones parade.  Just to add God's word.  4.  Your views of Phelps are "your views".  Articles about subjects as controversial as phelps should enshrine "his views", not everyone elses opinions. [[User:RightWolf2|RightWolf2]] 11:44, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
-==Landover Baptist==
-Is Fred Phelps' church the inspiration for the Landover Baptist Church website that mocks Christian Extremism?--[[User:Elamdri|Elamdri]] 15:57, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
-Yes. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 17:53, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
-==?==
-"Phelps, although outspoken and outlandish, is far less of a hypocrite than other Christian organizations who claim to be able to determine which verses from the Bible are literal from those that are allegorical."
-Wow. QED. [[User:Tmtoulouse|Tmtoulouse]] 02:19, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
-==Phelps is PRO-FAMILY, not anti-homosexual==
-There's a reason Dr. Dobson called his institution "Focus on the Family" and not "We Hate Gays".  There's a reason that it's called the "Family Research Council".  The people who oppose the homosexual agenda are PRO-FAMILY, not anti-anything.  Even the mainstream media generally recognizes this fact and ignore the moonbats (just like they ignore the moonbats when the moonbats try to label "PRO-lifers" as "ANTI-choicers").  Even the mainstream media (which has been proven to be overwhelmingly liberal, remember) doesn't call Dr. Dobson a bigot or a homophobe.  So why shouldn't Conservapedia, which was created to espouse the CONSERVATIVE point of view, reflect what even liberals acknowledge?--[[User:Ashens|Ashens]] 02:38, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
-Phelps isn't a true conservative. He says Bush is going to burn in hell. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 02:39, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
-:Jeeze, conservatives aren't brainless clones who can't disagree!  I strongly disagree with Phelps on this matter, but that doesn't make him a non-conservative!  Besides, the issue isn't whether or not he's conservative, the issue is his PRO-FAMILY "bias"!--[[User:Ashens|Ashens]] 02:46, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
-*My reading of scripture, perhaps not as advanced as some, tells me if we keep judging, which God has said is his alone to do, we will all be burning. --~ [[User:TK|TerryK]] <sup>[[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]]</sup> 04:37, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
-:I agree with Terry, but as I've learned from much debating with christians, the argument doesn't work. They've chosen to ignore one thing the bible says in order to use another thing the bible says to achieve their goals or to justify their hate.[[User:Nsmyth|NSmyth]] 04:47, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

Difference between revisions of "Talk:Fred Phelps"

Latest revision as of 17:41, July 9, 2011

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