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Talk:Infant baptism (view source)
Revision as of 13:51, November 28, 2019
, 13:51, November 28, 2019→RobS's position, simplified
::Is there a difference between "salvation" and "redemption"? Or are they same and only seem different depending on the different contexts in which they happen to appear? [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Thursday, 01:45, 28 November 2019 (EST)
::Is there a difference between "salvation" and "redemption"? Or are they same and only seem different depending on the different contexts in which they happen to appear? [[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Thursday, 01:45, 28 November 2019 (EST)
:::Redemption is a 'buying back' from sin and bondage, which yes, is a form of salvation. Salvation ''per see'' however is much more than just liberation from bondage. It refers to a present and future tense also, being saved from relapsing into the bondage of sin in this world, and being saved from the wrath of God and judgement in law.[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 07:44, 28 November 2019 (EST)
:::Redemption is a 'buying back' from sin and bondage, which yes, is a form of salvation. Salvation ''per see'' however is much more than just liberation from bondage. It refers to a present and future tense also, being saved from relapsing into the bondage of sin in this world, and being saved from the wrath of God and judgement in law.[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 07:44, 28 November 2019 (EST)
::::"'''''being saved from <big>relapsing</big> into the bondage of sin in this world, and being saved from the wrath of God and judgement in law.'''''"'''<big>?</big>''' There are those who reject the doctrine of Irresistible Grace and Eternal Security as a [[heresy]], ''based on the Bible'', primarily the [[Catholic Church]] and the [[Orthodox Church]]. See the following:
::::*[http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/faithalone.aspx Orthodox Christian Information Center - Justification by Faith Alone? The Reply of Patriarch Jeremiah II to the Lutheran Tübingen Theologians, Concerning the Augsburg Confession (16th cent.) (orthodoxinfo.com)] "It is necessary to join our good works together with the mercy from above."
::::*[http://evangelicalarminians.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Orthodox-Church-Affirms-Conditional-Security.pdf The Orthodox Church Affirms Conditional Security (evangelicalarminians.org)]
::::*[http://orthodox-apologetics.blogspot.com/2011/02/biblical-doctrine-of-salvation.html Orthodox Apologetics: The Biblical Doctrine of Salvation (Part One: Predestination, Incarnation, Grace, Faith, and Works) (orthodox-apologetics.blogspot.com)]
::::*[http://scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm Grace and Justification - Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part III, Section One, Chapter 3, Article 2 (scborromeo.org)].<br>The doctrine of Irresistible Grace and Eternal Security is rejected not only by the Catholics and the Orthodox but also by notable Protestant groups such as '''[[Free Will Baptist]]s, [[Assemblies of God]], and [[Church of Christ|Churches of Christ]], and all who agree with the doctrine of [[Arminianism]].'''
::::Groups that oppose this doctrine of Irresistible Grace and Eternal Security support their views on the basis of the following texts, among others:
:::::[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+10%3A12&version=KJV 1 Corinthians 10:12] "'''Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.'''"
:::::[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+3%3A17&version=KJV 2 Peter 3:17] "beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, '''fall from your own stedfastness'''."
:::::[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+18%3A24&version=NKJV Ezekiel 18:24] "But '''when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness''', and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: '''in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die'''."
:::::[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+11%3A19-22&version=NKJV Romans 11:19-22] "Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. '''Be not highminded, but fear:''' For if God spared not the natural branches, '''take heed lest he also spare not thee.''' Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, '''<big>if</big> thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.'''" (''boldface emphasis added'')
:::::--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 08:51, 28 November 2019 (EST)