Talk:Atheism is a religion

Suggest retitling to "Atheism as a religion" and request for proof that the theory of evolution is an Atheist doctrine. Barikada 18:40, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Atheism is as much a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby --Hadron 05:42, 23 February 2008 (EST)

If atheism is a religion...

...does that mean that it's impossible for a person to not have a religion? JohnMcL 19:34, 9 August 2011 (EDT)

"But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes. You're gonna have to serve somebody, Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord. But you're gonna have to serve somebody." - Bob Dylan Conservative 17:26, 10 November 2014 (EST)

Smartt's "Criteria"

Daniel Smartt suggests that Ninian Smart's list can be used as criteria which define worldviews as religions. This seems like a misreading of Smart, who instead offers the list as the things we should look at when analyzing worldviews, religious or secular. In other, he meant for his list to be applied to secular worldviews as a way of understanding them, but not so that we can define them as religions. You can read it here on page 2:.

(This is another person) I agree with the person above me; the criteria are obviously meant for both religious and secular worldviews, so anything that fills the criteria is not necessarily a religion. If it were just for religion, it would be missing something sort of...uh...important for religions: belief in something supernatural? Without that, you could could argue almost anything as a "religion"; Boy Scouts of America, for example. It has Narrative (campfire stories, mission statement, camp history), Experiential (there's a lot of personal experience to be had in the organization, which can be life-changing or personality-changing things), Social (BSoA has leaders), Ethical (from the BSoA website: "A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent." sounds like they encourage ethical behavior to me), Ritual (graduation ceremony), and Material (Camp grounds are a gathering place, American Flag is respected). Nothing doctrinal (at least nothing concerning the "nature of reality") but hey, 6 out of 7 isn't bad, eh, since you don't need all 7 to qualify. I believe my Public School also qualifies as a religion, since we have narrative (school history, we have a wall dedicated to artifacts and stories from the beginnings of the school), experiential (I have life changing experiences here), Social (We have the principal and faculty as leaders), Ethical (we have a code of character and conduct that is stressed every day, etc.), Doctrinal (We have a philosophy class where we discuss the nature of the universe or whatever), Ritual (Graduation), and Material (the school building where we gather, as well as the monument to the school founder and the artifacts on the history wall). The point is that there are plenty of things that qualify that don't involve the supernatural, which is one of the key points of religion. But as I said, those criteria aren't meant as qualifiers for a religion, but a worldview.

That said, Atheism doesn't even qualify as a worldview, as none of the things you mentioned are actually valid qualifications for each criterion. The difference between the qualifiers used for religions (rituals, beliefs, narratives, ethics, etc.) and the ones you used for Atheism, is that the religious ones are part of the religion by definition. The ethics outlined in the bible are the official "Christian" ethics, the rituals and narratives are all essential parts of Christianity. Alternatively, Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a God. Anything else beyond that can be described as "Atheistic" in the sense that they don't involve God, but they are not purely Atheist things to do and are not essential parts of Atheism. If you are Atheist you do not have to believe the theory of evolution is true, and not all Atheists do. You do not have to reject God to be an Atheist. That assumes you believe in God in the first place. A person raised as a hermit in the woods would never have the experience of "rejecting God". So you could believe evolution is false, never "reject God", not go to Atheist gatherings (or even know that they occur), never know about any prominent Atheists, never spend time considering the ultimate nature of reality or convincing yourself of the non-existence of God or that faith is illegitimate, never get married, not be concerned about the religion vs. secular nature of your funeral, and not believe that nature is sacred, and you can still be an Atheist. The only thing involved in Atheism is not believing religious claims of a God. Yes you can argue that some things are Atheistic, but that ultimately just means they don't involve God, not that they are a "part of Atheism" or what have you. In essence, you don't have to do anything to be an Atheist. There are no positive beliefs, rituals, or experiences that are a central part of Atheism. If you are not religious, you are Atheist by default.

—Glenwing

P.S. Here's another way of thinking about it. What if you don't believe in Christanity or any other religion. And then you also reject Atheism as well. You don't believe evolution, don't attend any Atheist conventions, etc. What are you then? Nothing? Yes. We have a term for that. It's called Atheism. Without Theism. Without Religion. Yes it's true that many atheists share beliefs on topics, but that is ultimately meaningless as those things still aren't essential to what atheism really is and what it is to be an atheist.

User: Williagz's suggestions re: Smartt were added. See material HERE Conservative 04:58, 28 May 2012 (EDT)

Essay?

Shouldn't this be an essay? AndrewLe 10:53, 27 July 2014 (EDT)

Why? Conservative 11:39, 27 July 2014 (EDT)

Because it is the exposition of a point of view, not an encyclopedic article. AndrewLe 11:50, 27 July 2014 (EDT)

Atheism meets the criteria of a religion (the 7 criteria). The article is not going to be labeled an essay. Conservative 13:02, 27 July 2014 (EDT)

Your choice. But it is an essay nonetheless. AndrewLe 13:13, 27 July 2014 (EDT)

AndrewLe, your first post on the talk page in the form of a question didn't exactly impress me. It appeared as if you could not defend your stance and/or possessed intellectual sloth. Subsequent posts confirmed this matter. Declaring an accusation to be true and showing it to be true are two different matters.

By the way, do you have any proof and evidence that atheism is true? Christianity has abundant proof and evidence that it is true. Conservative 13:34, 27 July 2014 (EDT)

AndrewLe, why don't you provide proof and evidence that atheism is not a religion? That would have been the most reasonable thing to do when posting to this talk page. I don't think you can do it because atheism is a religion and meets Ninian Smart's criteria of a religion. In addition, atheism lacks proof and evidence that it is true and requires blind and unreasonable faith. Conservative 13:51, 27 July 2014 (EDT)

I never said atheism is true, and I never said atheism is not a religion, so I have no obligation to support either of those positions. My concern is limited to the form of this article, not its content. At Conservapedia:Essays it says, "Unlike articles, essays may represent a particular point of view." Atheism is a religion represents a particular point of view on an issue that is the subject of debate (as is stated in its first sentence). It is an essay. AndrewLe 15:58, 27 July 2014 (EDT)

AndrewLe, are you an atheist? If so, what proof and evidence do you have that atheism is true? By the way, I changed the beginning of the article. Conservative 17:28, 27 July 2014 (EDT)

Ok, he didn't answered because he didn't dispute the fact that atheism is a religion (which is completely and utterly false) but the fact that the format was more of a point of view rather than a fact-based article. Now, just to tell you, a religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence. It is composed of a belief in a deity, stories and rules (religious rules). Atheism has no stories, no particular belief or cultural system. You could argue that atheism is becoming more and more of a worldview (which isn't true either, it's just less ridiculous than saying atheism is a religion, when it is a LACK of religion. I hope you will either take down or change partially your article so it is more fact-based.

Evidence that many atheists are in fact religious

Arguing for or against biological evolution is not an argument for or against the existence of a deity - it is only an argument for or against the assertion that the earth is both young and that observable lifeforms were created and have always existed in its present form. The fact that even atheists who accept evolution believe it is evidence against the existence of a deity is evidence of a persistent strain of irrational thinking among many of them. Tollerson 16:45, 10 November 2014 (EST)

Atheist Cults

There are two sections in this article named Atheist Cults, one is an actual section, with a link to Atheist cults, the other is simply a "See Also." Are there any objections to me removing the "See Also" section? IHop 09:39, 7 January 2015 (EST)

Fixed. Thanks. Conservative 15:54, 7 January 2015 (EST)