Conservapedia talk:Contest4

Many things need to be worked out until this is finalized. Among them are:

• How to do selection of teams[1]
• What the role of team captain comes down to[2]
• How to ensure all players understand the rules[3]
• How to mandate clear point tallies[4]
• How to word the purpose of the contest[5]
• How to enact a system that would solve rule conflicts[6]
• How to rewrite the Wanted pages rule[7]

Please feel free to create a section for other concerns - and for more specifics on the above, simply visit the link to the right of each item, where clarification is given.--IDuan 23:37, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Relating to Teams

Role of Team Captain

I suggest that team captains have as small a role as possible. They should be selected based on who were the top contributers in the previous contest (in this case Contest3) and they should pick teams. After the Contest as started, however, there role should become nominal.--IDuan 23:37, 6 January 2008 (EST)

I think the captains should have some responsibilities to watch and curb what team players are doing. Good sportsmanship starts with the captain in directing his team in the proper way.--Aschlafly 23:58, 7 January 2008 (EST)

I agree with Andy in this regard, we need accountability within the teams. Geo.^Complain! 17:54, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Relating to Rules

Point Tallies

Perhaps the best way to do this is a general format. Geo and HelpJazz were kind enough to point out my layout as suitable - however I agree with them that it is far too specific. Perhaps something like this would be better:

==Type of Edit(Points the edit is Worth)(Number of this type made)==
links to diff (no organization necessary).

--IDuan 23:37, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Purpose

I believe the purpose of the contest is to improve Conservapedia by tapping into the competitive side of our editors--IDuan 23:37, 6 January 2008 (EST)

I agree. Like all sports competitions, however, fostering sportsmanship is also a goal. "Winning at any price" may be true in war, but not in good-spirited competitions.--Aschlafly 23:59, 7 January 2008 (EST)

Right. This contest should be fun and competitive, but everyone needs to keep in mind that the ultimate goal is to improve Conservapedia. ~ Sharon^Talk 09:11, 8 January 2008 (EST)

Specific Point Issues

Please place all disagreements with regards to point values here (i.e. if you think "x" should get 20 points instead of 5) - and try to separate by section--IDuan 23:43, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Active(3)

Wanted Pages Rule

I think that in order to avoid cheating - only wanted pages that exist at the start of the contest should be allowed to count - these pages would be recorded on a page (and the page would be protected) to ensure accuracy. That way we won't have people artificially creating wanted pages they can create--IDuan 23:37, 6 January 2008 (EST)

I don't know that have to limit it that sharply. But obviously creating wanted pages simply to extinguish them is silly and unacceptable.--Aschlafly 00:00, 8 January 2008 (EST)

I think Iduan's idea of putting all the wanted pages on a list would work pretty well. I can't really think of anything better. ~ Sharon^Talk 09:11, 8 January 2008 (EST)

Personally, I don't think it's necessary. It is understood at this point what a wanted page is and the honor system should suffice. The difficulty last time was with a concerted effort to bend the rules. With the spirit of the contest being more clear this time, I don't think you would run into the same issues. Treat everyone like trusted positive contributors, and chances are they will live up to your expectations. Learn together 13:51, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Scoring Examples

Perhaps we should have links "guideline" articles which meet the minimum qualifications for each level. This way there would be something specific to look at when there are questions. HelpJazz 19:15, 7 January 2008 (EST)

Copy & Pasted pages

I'm of the opinion that these should score one point, not two. The phenomenally miniscule amount of effort that is required for these, and the fact that they are almost always allowed to remain dead-ends and such until after a contest… --AngryCommunist 16:12, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Resolved

Redirects should be very low value

I am not even sure why this is controversial. [8] StephenW 23:46, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Firstly, the reason I reverted was because the change wasn't brought up here first - and in order to AVOID a bunch of reverts we should try and discuss point changes before doing them. I do think redirects should get two points, though, because while it is easy to do a redirect, it is just as easy to, say, add a period to an article, which is also worth two points (minor edit).--IDuan 23:49, 6 January 2008 (EST)

You're the only one reverting. Sounds like you should have lowered the value of adding a comma to an article. StephenW 23:51, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Again - I reverted because it wasn't brought up here first. And per precedent the value of minor edits has alway been 2 points--IDuan 23:53, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Fine, if you want to vet minor points on the talk page first, you are basically asking me not to collaborate with you. Just put a notice at the top of the page "This is a work by Iduan, please do not edit, it's mine." StephenW 00:08, 7 January 2008 (EST)

I reverted you because all changes should be discussed here first. You started discussing here - I said I disagreed with you - but I'm not the authority on this - when more people start commenting on this talk page then it might end up that we do make redirects worth one point.--IDuan 11:41, 7 January 2008 (EST)

I agree that redirects should be less than 2 points. It's easier than even copy/pasting an article.HelpJazz 19:15, 7 January 2008 (EST)

Ok, though then should we make minor edits less than two points? Because really it's incredibly easy ot just find an article that, say, doesn't have the title bolded in the intro-sentence, and then change that and claim 2 points. --IDuan 21:09, 7 January 2008 (EST)

Personally, I never counted bolding on its own as a minor edit; the article would need to have some other change as well. You may wish to consider implementing a similar standard. Learn together 23:04, 7 January 2008 (EST)

I should add as well that as someone who does a lot of redirects, that I also believe they should be 1 point. A redirect is usually an afterthought to help those who use this site find what they are looking for more easily, but the thought that goes into it is not the same as for article creation or for true edits which should, at least in theory, include reading through the article. Learn together 13:57, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Quality New Article

There is a 14-point difference between a QNA and the next level down. I think this level should be lowered (to, say, 15 points) or raise the requirements a bit. HelpJazz 19:15, 7 January 2008 (EST)

I agree--IDuan 21:10, 7 January 2008 (EST)

Placement of this page

Shouldn't this be Conservapedia:Contest 4? --AngryCommunist 23:24, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Probably so. DanH 23:26, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Thank you :). --AngryCommunist 23:29, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Yes I suppose you're right - I was actually going to make it this - but I noticed that we had done Contest3 in the namespace - so in order to avoid any conflict I figured I should go with the precedent - but in hindsight I should've placed it here - thanks for the heads up.--IDuan 23:37, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Judges

If you have judges or something of the sort, put me on the list!! --~BCS^Talk2ME 17:21, 7 January 2008 (EST)

You'd be great! I "second" your "motion" to be a judge.--Aschlafly 00:01, 8 January 2008 (EST)

Players

So, can I participate? --AngryCommunist 16:11, 9 January 2008 (EST)

The teams will be eventually selected through a draft by captains (although like last time, we'll have a "those interested" area where you can put yoru name) - although this won't be for a while as we have to work out scoring, rules etc.--IDuan 16:40, 9 January 2008 (EST)

When does the contest start? --AngryCommunist 21:49, 9 January 2008 (EST)

There's no date yet - we have to get all the rules straightened out first--IDuan 21:52, 9 January 2008 (EST)

That's cool, thanks for informing me. --AngryCommunist 22:26, 9 January 2008 (EST)

A thought on balance

I believe it should be considered that in the event that one of the captains finds that through no fault of his own that he has fewer participants than the other team by a number of at least 2, that the last player picked by the captain with extra players be transferred to the team that finds itself short. That should help to keep things balanced and, I believe, coincides with our belief in fair play. Learn together 20:56, 11 January 2008 (EST)