Debate: Did John the Apostle write Revelation
This debate page is to discuss the authorship of the Book of Revelation. Did John the Apostle write it, as the historical record including the early church affirms, or was it a separate individual also named "John" who was in Patmos at the time?
Contents
Yes, it was the Apostle John
Verse 1:9
| “ | I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. | ” |
| —ESV | ||
John the Apostle, after all, experienced tremendous tribulation throughout his lifetime, just like the rest of his fellow disciples. After miraculously saved despite being tossed into boiling oil, he was sentenced to exile in the island of Patmos. I know some would make the claim that the direct introduction contradicts the nature of the Gospel and Epistles of John, though it should be noted that in the last years of the Apostle John's life, he was on a slave labor mine, and thus probably felt much more alone compared to when his Gospel and Epistles might've been written. Thus, he might've felt self-compelled to make his identity clear. —LT (Mark 8:36) Monday, 01:38, January 2, 2023 (EST)
Usage of the term "Lamb" or "Lamb of God" to describe Jesus
The phrase was used once in the Old Testament, once in the Epistles, and the rest of its occurrences were in the Johannine works. I think this provides a good case for authorship of Revelation by the Apostle John. Out of the four Gospels, only John the Apostle referred to Jesus as the "Lamb of God" in John 1:29 and John 1:36 . The Apostle Peter also uses the word lamb in 1 Peter 1:19, though note that it's in lowercase unlike John's usage, which is capitalized.
Since Revelation uses the term "Lamb" in reference to Jesus just as the Gospel of John does, it indicates that the authorship of both books were by the same individual, John the Apostle. If it was a different individual who wrote the Book of Revelation, what are the odds that they coincidentally also decided to use "Lamb" in such a context just as the Apostle John does? This article provides great examples defending the attribution of authorship to John the Apostle. —LT (Mark 8:36) Saturday, 00:21, January 7, 2023 (EST)
Patristic Testimony for Apostolic/Johannine Authorship
The Catholic Encyclopedia relates: "from tradition we know that the Seer of the Apocalypse was John the Apostle the son of Zebedee, the Beloved Disciple of Jesus. At the end of the second century the Apocalypse was acknowledged by the historical representatives of the principal churches as the genuine work of John the Apostle.
In Asia, Melito, Bishop of Sardis, one of the Seven Churches of the Apocalypse, acknowledged the Revelation of John and wrote a commentary on it (Eusebius, Church History IV.26). In Gaul, Irenaeus firmly believes in its Divine and Apostolic authority (Against Heresies 5.30). In Africa, Tertullian frequently quotes Revelation without apparent misgivings as to its authenticity (Against Marcion III). In Italy, Bishop Hippolytus assigns it to the Apostle St. John, and the Muratorian Fragment (a document about the beginning of the third century) enumerates it along with the other canonical writings, adding, it is true, apocryphal Apocalypse of St. Peter, but with the clause, quam quidam ex nostris in ecclesia legi nolunt. The Vetus Itala, moreover, the standard Latin version in Italy and Africa during the third century, contained the Apocalypse. In Egypt, Clement and Origen believed without hesitation in its Joannine authorship. They were both scholars and men of critical judgment. Their opinion is all the more valuable as they had no sympathy with the millennial teaching of the book. They contented themselves with an allegorical interpretation of certain passages but never ventured to impugn its authority." NishantXavierFor Christ the King 03:56, April 18, 2023 (EDT)
- Johannine authorship of Revelation also fits perfectly with the character of the Lord: of the Apostles, nearly all faced vicious martyrdom at the hands of various pagans, though Jesus spared the life of his beloved disciple from the fate the others faced, and tasked him with writing the final book of the Bible. I believe the Early Church Fathers conclusively affirm the record that John the Apostle miraculously survived the oil-boiling execution attempt, and thus was exiled to the island of Patmos where he wrote Revelation while resting on the Sabbath, and spent his last days in Ephesus, where he peacefully died in old age. —
LT(Matthew 26:52) Tuesday, 10:25, April 18, 2023 (EDT)
No, it was a different individual
The Book of Revelation has stylistic or grammatical errors not found anywhere in the Gospel of John. Also, I think there are many words in one that cannot be found in the other, which is another sign of different authorship. This is not to say that the Book of Revelation has any authenticity issues, but merely that it had a different authorship.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 02:20, January 2, 2023 (EST)
- Interesting. So I'm intrigued to know, what would be one example of an important word in Revelation not found anywhere in the Gospel of John even if there could be a place for its usage in the latter? —
LT(Mark 8:36) Monday, 02:29, January 2, 2023 (EST)
