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→The science: Very good.
::::::::Ok, i can see now how we got in to this cycle of debate, there are a lot of issues at stake here, some of a real Chicken-and-Egg style: Is someone unhappy because they are homosexual ''per se'', or unhappy because they are ''made to feel'' unhappy about being homosexual? How far is homophobia linked to latent-homosexuality? Is the diagnosis of homosexuality as a disease in itself an anti-homosexual phenomenon? Where do we draw the line between proximal psychological causes of discrimination against homosexuals (homophobia) and distal cultural causes of discrimination against homosexuals (anti-homosexualism in general)? How far is homophobia linked to direct anti-homosexual behavior? These are all controversial issues, all i can say is that I disagree profoundly with the idea that homosexuality is in itself a disease, and the idea that it is ok to discriminate against homosexuals. These principles are not incompatible with the idea that homophobia is a psychological diagnosis. [[User:Orgone|Orgone]] 23:55, 25 April 2007 (EDT)
::::::::Ok, i can see now how we got in to this cycle of debate, there are a lot of issues at stake here, some of a real Chicken-and-Egg style: Is someone unhappy because they are homosexual ''per se'', or unhappy because they are ''made to feel'' unhappy about being homosexual? How far is homophobia linked to latent-homosexuality? Is the diagnosis of homosexuality as a disease in itself an anti-homosexual phenomenon? Where do we draw the line between proximal psychological causes of discrimination against homosexuals (homophobia) and distal cultural causes of discrimination against homosexuals (anti-homosexualism in general)? How far is homophobia linked to direct anti-homosexual behavior? These are all controversial issues, all i can say is that I disagree profoundly with the idea that homosexuality is in itself a disease, and the idea that it is ok to discriminate against homosexuals. These principles are not incompatible with the idea that homophobia is a psychological diagnosis. [[User:Orgone|Orgone]] 23:55, 25 April 2007 (EDT)
::::::::: That is all very good analysis and you have an excenllent grasp of the issues. And you're a good writer. Homosexuality has not been recognized as a diagnosis now since 1973 or sometime thereafter; it still was criminal contact in many states and localities into the 1980s (and is criminal in many Western & non-Western nations still). Prior to the APA dropping the diagnosis, gays had the double whammy -- it was considered a disease ''and'' it was crime. "Legalization" came shortly after "normalization" by the medical community. But I think you can see, many profoundly disturbed psyciatric patients were not cured simply the day after the APA dropped the diagnosis.
::::::::: Homophobia is a recognized diagnosis, however it is not a crime. This abstract [http://www.springerlink.com/content/n0264m864t146585/ here] says,
::::::::::'' existing measures of homophobia have been inadequately psychometrically evaluated and therefore it is not clear whether currently this construct can be accurately measured. It is also concluded that the construct of homophobia, as it is usually used, makes an illegitimately pejorative evaluation of certain open and debatable value positions, much like the former disease construct of homosexuality.''
:::::::::translated means, while homophobia remains a recognized diagnosis in the psychiatric community, there is no overall agreement on what it is, and it is concluded ''the misuse'' of the term making it an ''illegitimate pejorative'' is reminisent of the old days when the APA felt the diagnosis of homosexuals added to their stigmatization, which was cause of all the problems in the first place. And being stigmatized, they were abused with pejoritives making them outcasts. The way ''homophobia'' is used today as a pejoritive, is much like the bad old days. And not by coincidence, true homophobes are most likely to be homosexuals themselves. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:23, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
:::This requires studying sources such as the link provided above; while homosexuality is no loner considered a mental disease (as it once was by the APA), phobias, and specifically homophobia ''still'' is considered as diagnosiable mental condition by the American Psycriatric Asscociation. Now, here is the kicker: most diagnosed homophobes are so-called "latent homosexuals", their fear of homosexuals being personal, i.e. that they may cross the line from latent attraction into an active homosexual lifestyle. In this sense, psyciatrists are ''still'' "treating" homosexuals, not homosexuality as a mental disease, but latent homosexuals fear of acting on their impulses. This is the true, scientific, and medical description of the disease.
:::This requires studying sources such as the link provided above; while homosexuality is no loner considered a mental disease (as it once was by the APA), phobias, and specifically homophobia ''still'' is considered as diagnosiable mental condition by the American Psycriatric Asscociation. Now, here is the kicker: most diagnosed homophobes are so-called "latent homosexuals", their fear of homosexuals being personal, i.e. that they may cross the line from latent attraction into an active homosexual lifestyle. In this sense, psyciatrists are ''still'' "treating" homosexuals, not homosexuality as a mental disease, but latent homosexuals fear of acting on their impulses. This is the true, scientific, and medical description of the disease.