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Why is Andrew Schlafly's insight more reliable than the Gospel of Mark?
Why is Andrew Schlafly's insight more reliable than the Gospel of Mark?
{{cquote|Mark wasn't there. Jesus did not speak aloud to a storm.|||[[Talk:Biblical scientific foreknowledge#Embarrassing Error|Andy Schlafly (talk) 09:44, 10 March 2016 (EST)]]}}
{{cquote|Mark wasn't there. Jesus did not speak aloud to a storm.|||[[Talk:Biblical scientific foreknowledge#Embarrassing Error|Andy Schlafly (talk) 09:44, 10 March 2016 (EST)]]}}
----
From [[User_talk:Aschlafly#Calming_of_the_Storm_-_eight_month_later|Calming of the Storm - eight month later]]:
Andy, it took you ''eight months'' to delete the factually false statement ''But "λέγω" -- the Greek term used for said in some versions -- does not appear in the Greek above'' from your [[Essay:Calming the Storm]]. Now I have given you [[Talk:Biblical_scientific_foreknowledge#Need_to_discuss_further_on_the_talk_page|another eight months]] to acknowledge that according to Mark, Jesus spoke to the storm aloud. But I understand that you were very preoccupied with the election: It is very unfortunate that your mother wasn't able to see Trump's ultimate triumph to which she had contributed so much - I want to express my belate condolences for your loss.
1) If you view Mark 4:39 (καὶ διεγερθεὶς ἐπετίμησεν τῷ ἀνέμῳ καὶ <span style="color:red">εἶπεν</span> <span style="color:green">τῇ θαλάσσῃ</span> <span style="color:blue">Σιώπα, πεφίμωσο.</span> καὶ ἐκόπασεν ὁ ἄνεμος, καὶ ἐγένετο γαλήνη μεγάλη.) in isolation, you may be allowed to try various, even anachronistic meanings of λέγω. But your proposals (''"lay", to "cause to lie down," or to "put to sleep"'') '''''don't work grammatically'''''. Confer the Iliad, 14th book, verse 252 where Homer uses λέγω in this sense:
[...]ἐγὼ μὲν <span style="color:red">ἔλεξα</span> Διὸς <span style="color:green">νόον</span>[...] (I, indeed, <span style="color:red">laid to rest</span><span style="color:green"> the mind</span> of Zeus)
Here, you see, that λέγω in the sense of laying is a transitive verb and requires an accusative (<span style="color:green">νόον</span>), while in Mark 4:39 you have a dative object (<span style="color:green">τῇ θαλάσσῃ</span>). For short, '''your preferred meaning cannot be reconciled with the actual grammar'''.
2) If you view Mark 4:39 in context of the Gospel of Mark - and even the New Testament - it becomes clear that the only feasible translation of this verse is something like "
<span style="color:red">[...]He said</span> <span style="color:green">to the sea</span>: <span style="color:blue">"Silence, be still"</span>): Mark uses the verb λέγω in 190 of his 678 verses, most often as the sequence
<span style="color:red">[form of λέγω]</span><span style="color:green">[addressed person as dative object]</span><span style="color:blue">[direct speech]</span>
You can see this e.g. in Mark 4:38-41:
<sub>38</sub>καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν ἐν τῇ πρύμνῃ ἐπὶ τὸ προσκεφάλαιον καθεύδων· καὶ ἐγείρουσιν αὐτὸν καὶ <span style="color:red">λέγουσιν</span> <span style="color:green">αὐτῷ</span> <span style="color:blue">Διδάσκαλε, οὐ μέλει σοι ὅτι ἀπολλύμεθα;</span> <sub>39</sub>καὶ διεγερθεὶς ἐπετίμησεν τῷ ἀνέμῳ καὶ
<span style="color:red">εἶπεν</span> <span style="color:green">τῇ θαλάσσῃ</span> <span style="color:blue">Σιώπα, πεφίμωσο</span>. καὶ ἐκόπασεν ὁ ἄνεμος, καὶ ἐγένετο γαλήνη μεγάλη. <sub>40</sub>καὶ
<span style="color:red">εἶπεν</span><span style="color:green"> αὐτοῖς</span><span style="color:blue"> Τί δειλοί ἐστε; οὔπω ἔχετε πίστιν;</span> <sub>41</sub>καὶ ἐφοβήθησαν φόβον μέγαν, καὶ <span style="color:red">ἔλεγον</span><span style="color:green"> πρὸς ἀλλήλους </span><span style="color:blue">Τίς ἄρα οὗτός ἐστιν ὅτι καὶ ὁ ἄνεμος καὶ ἡ θάλασσα ὑπακούει αὐτῷ; </span>
Here, in this short section, Mark uses the same construction four times (out of 190...). '''Do you really think that one time he just wants to express the opposite meaning to the other three times?'''
I'd like to hear your thoughts. --[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] ([[User talk:AugustO|talk]]) 09:08, 20 November 2016 (EST)