Block, SkipCaptcha, Upload, Automoderated users, edit, move, protect
30,891
edits
Changes
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
Line 67:
Line 67: + +
→"Helpless" babies and sinners - Ephesians 2:11-16 and Romans 5:12-19; Romans 5:6-11 and 8:31-39; 2 Timothy 2:13 and 2 Corinthians 1:19-22 and John 10:35: Response: defined Salvation as eternal life by baptism, supporting Bible refs linked
::Your argument seems to be that salvation is some future event, '' after'' life in the flesh. To discuss any of this, you need to (1) define salvation; (2) explain why salvation is not for the here and now. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 14:00, 23 October 2019 (EDT)
::Your argument seems to be that salvation is some future event, '' after'' life in the flesh. To discuss any of this, you need to (1) define salvation; (2) explain why salvation is not for the here and now. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 14:00, 23 October 2019 (EDT)
:::[[Salvation]] is [[eternal life]] instead of death, given by [[baptism]] now. Simple.<br>The gift of unmerited salvation which gives eternal life is directly bestowed by the regeneration of baptism ([http://biblehub.com/titus/3-5.htm Titus 3:5]) "which saves you ''now''" ([http://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-8.htm 1 Peter 3:21]) [[Ex opere operato and ex opere operantis|''ex opere operato'']], through the ministry of others not of themselves "on behalf of Christ" ([http://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/5-18.htm 2 Corinthians 5:18]), on behalf of the same Lord Jesus Christ who does the actual work of the [[sacrament]] himself through his blood ([http://biblehub.com/1_peter/1-2.htm 1 Peter 1:2]), in accordance with the established doctrinal condition demanded by the Lord Jesus Christ himself, "Except a man (Gr '''τις''' ''tis'' "anyone") be born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God." [http://biblehub.com/john/3-5.htm John 3:5]. This is the free gift of God—with the condition that the Lord himself laid down to be saved. Jesus sanctifies and cleanses "by the washing of water with the word" ([http://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-26.htm Ephesians 5:26]). He commanded baptism in [http://biblehub.com/matthew/28-19.htm Matthew 28:19]. <br>"Why do you call me, Lord, Lord, and do not do what I command?" ([http://biblehub.com/luke/6-46.htm Luke 6:46]; [http://biblehub.com/matthew/7-21.htm Matthew 7:21]; [http://biblehub.com/john/15-10.htm John 15:10]). <br> Jesus does this from love for a purpose ([http://biblehub.com/john/3-17.htm John 3:17]; [http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-5.htm Ephesians 1:5]; [http://biblehub.com/matthew/28-19.htm Matthew 28:19]). <br>Salvation is the rescue of the soul, by the cleansing blood of Christ on the cross ([http://biblehub.com/1_john/1-7.htm 1 John 1:7]) through the washing of water with the word, that the soul might be born again (regenerated) by water and the Spirit, saved '''''from''''' the everlasting ruin of sin, saved '''''for''''' "good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." ([http://biblehub.com/romans/2-7.htm Romans 2:7]; [http://biblehub.com/1_john/3-7.htm 1 John 3:7]; [http://biblehub.com/james/2-24.htm James 2:24]). Babies saved by the salvation of baptism grow up to serve the Lord by the grace bestowed through salvation—saved from the wrath to come on those who are not cleansed of their sin ([http://biblehub.com/1_john/3-10.htm 1 John 3:10]; [http://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/7-1.htm 2 Corinthians 7:1]; Revelation 20:15; 22:14-15). The essence of salvation, and the result of salvation, bestowed on the helpless sinner is a '''partaking of the divine nature''' ([http://biblehub.com/2_peter/1-4.htm 2 Peter 1:4]) by the everlasting life of God in Christ Jesus poured out on the helpless soul ([http://biblehub.com/romans/5-6.htm Romans 5:6]) by "water and the Spirit", and the [[eucharist]], which bestows the "life that now is and is to come" [http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/4-8.htm 1 Timothy 4:8]. <br> Read the article [ Did Jesus and the apostles heal everyone ''because of their faith?'' - Let Us Reason Ministries (letusreason.org)]. <br>--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 03:10, 27 October 2019 (EDT)