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→"Helpless" babies and sinners - Ephesians 2:11-16 and Romans 5:12-19; Romans 5:6-11 and 8:31-39; 2 Timothy 2:13 and 2 Corinthians 1:19-22 and John 10:35: My definitive final response, written for the benefit of all who read this page.
::::::Let me point out the obvious error - ''without shedding of blood there is no remission''. Baptism is by water, not of blood. You are offering a bloodless sacrifice of your works, rejecting the work of Christ, to establish your own tradition.. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 17:43, 27 October 2019 (EDT)
::::::Let me point out the obvious error - ''without shedding of blood there is no remission''. Baptism is by water, not of blood. You are offering a bloodless sacrifice of your works, rejecting the work of Christ, to establish your own tradition.. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 17:43, 27 October 2019 (EDT)
:::::::[http://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-21.htm 1 Peter 3:21 "'''baptism doth also now save us.'''"] —You deny this.
:::::::[http://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-21.htm 1 Peter 3:21 "'''baptism doth also now save us.'''"] —You deny this.
:It's pretty simple. It's not rocket science. God never intended it to be a scholarly exercise. It's gotta be simple enough for a child to understand. Just remember, ''That which is flesh is flesh, that which is spirit is spirit.'' Baptism is of the spirit, not of the flesh. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 03:46, 28 October 2019 (EDT)
:It's pretty simple. It's not rocket science. God never intended it to be a scholarly exercise. It's gotta be simple enough for a child to understand. Just remember, ''That which is flesh is flesh, that which is spirit is spirit.'' Baptism is of the spirit, not of the flesh. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 03:46, 28 October 2019 (EDT)
::'''Fundamental Salvation'''
::''For the benefit of other readers here'', it is evident that you did not read the two links I provided for direct access to the ''Catechism of the Catholic Church'', which '''affirms''' your last statement above "'''Baptism is of the spirit, not of the flesh'''" ([http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm#1213 '''1213-1284'''] and [http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm#1987 '''1987-2029''']). <br> It's pretty simple. Baptism saves the soul. A child can understand that.
::You asked me to answer the question, "What is salvation?" I gave you my answer from the Bible. The Bible answer to the question "What is salvation?" is set forth fully in the ''Catechism of the Catholic Church'' as a [[reiteration]] of all that the '''''Bible''''' says. The ''Catechism'' defines salvation from scripture alone, using abundant citations and quotations from scripture, with literal conclusions from scripture, drawn from the common understanding of the Church Fathers east and west, who based all they said on the [[Exegesis|literal sense of scripture]], the [[sensus fidelium]], [[sensus plenior]] and [[sensus Christianorum]] of Christianity, faithfully expressing "the mind of Christ", so that what you rejected as "traditions of men" is in fact the teaching of scripture, "and the scripture cannot be broken" ([http://biblehub.com/john/10-35.htm John 10:35]; [http://biblehub.com/mark/12-24.htm Mark 12:24]; [http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-34.htm 1 Corinthians 15:34]).
::I can say this because I am primarily and fundamentally a Bible apologist, who just happens to be Catholic. I was raised a Baptist. I know the Bible. I am 72 years old and I have read it cover to cover 82 times since before the age of 12 when I finally "went forward and accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior" and was baptized by full immersion at Grace Baptist Church (''Conservative Baptist'') in Des Moines, Iowa, in the spring of 1959. Shortly afterward I was appointed by the pastor as one of the "youth conversion counsellors" of newly baptized converts and made one of the leaders of our Youth Group, and actively joined "Youth for Christ". Years later, as an adult, by fervent prayer, and by my knowledge of scripture and history and finding out by careful investigation what Catholicism and Orthodoxy actually teaches (which is not what I had been ''told'' they teach), at age 33 the Lord Jesus led me to embrace the Catholic Church as the most biblically faithful Church on the face of the earth. I held to three fundamental scripture passages:
::::'''Galatians 1:6-9; 1 John 2:18-19;''' and '''John 14:16-17''' ''with'' '''John 16:12-14.'''
::I looked for a church that did not come out of another church and teach a doctrine different from the church it came out of. Only one qualified historically and scripturally. People asked me, "How can you do that?" I said, "Because I believe the Bible. Let me show you." I stand on the firm foundation of the doctrine of the Bible which includes all "authority established by God" (Romans 13:1-10; Hebrews 13:17; 1 Peter 2:13-17). The established Church has "the mind of Christ".
::Rejection of scripture written by men who were sent by the Lord, is rejection of the word of the Lord who was sent by the Father, and rejection of the word of the Lord who was sent by God is rejection of the Lord who sent Him ([http://biblehub.com/luke/10-16.htm Luke 10:16]; [http://biblehub.com/matthew/10-40.htm Matthew 10:40]; [http://biblehub.com/luke/9-48.htm Luke 9:48]; [http://biblehub.com/john/13-20.htm John 13:20]; [http://biblehub.com/luke/9-48.htm 12:48]). The full context of the teaching of the Bible itself according to the whole of the first sixteen centuries of consistent Christian understanding of the salvation through the blood of Christ, poured out by the Holy Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9-11) in baptism with water ([http://biblehub.com/1_john/5-6.htm 1 John 5:6]; [http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/6-11.htm 1 Corinthians 6:11]; [http://biblehub.com/revelation/1-5.htm Revelation 1:5]), was the reason the whole Christian Church, Catholic, Orthodox and mainstream Protestant ''together'', guided by the Holy Spirit (John 14:16, 26; 16:13-14; Matthew 28:19-20), condemned the credobaptism doctrine of the Anabaptists as a doctrine of Satan himself. What they say I say with them. This is my final answer. You will not hear from me again on this page. <br> [http://biblehub.com/proverbs/29-9.htm Proverbs 28:9]—[http://biblehub.com/proverbs/29-9.htm 18:1]; [http://biblehub.com/proverbs/20-30.htm 20:3]; [http://biblehub.com/proverbs/22-9.htm 22:9]; [http://biblehub.com/proverbs/26-12.htm 26:12]; [http://biblehub.com/proverbs/27-3.htm 27:3]; [http://biblehub.com/proverbs/30-5.htm 30:5].<br> --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 13:42, 28 October 2019 (EDT)