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→Regenerative salvation by water and the Spirit: water baptism saves: response to question were the OT saints saved by faith alone?
:So the gospel of salvation by grace has been preached since the beginning, long before the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ took place in fulfillment of the scriptures. But we see some could not enter in, because of disbelief (lack of faith).
:So the gospel of salvation by grace has been preached since the beginning, long before the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ took place in fulfillment of the scriptures. But we see some could not enter in, because of disbelief (lack of faith).
:The Law (or "the letter") killeth. Grace gives life. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 14:51, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
:The Law (or "the letter") killeth. Grace gives life. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 14:51, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
::"''So the gospel of salvation by grace has been preached since the beginning, long before the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ took place in fulfillment of the scriptures.''" You say they were already saved before any of this took place.<br>Either you have done away with the need for Christ by faith, or you have confirmed the doctrine of "baptism of desire" by which all those "spirits in prison" were freed by the preaching of Christ himself because of their hope which waited (they were forced to wait) for his baptism of them in fulfillment of their desire for salvation 1 Peter 3:18-21. ''Catechism of the Catholic Church'', '''1260'''
:::"Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have ''desired Baptism explicitly'' if they had known its necessity."
::Hebrews 11:39-40 says most explicitly,
:::"And all these, though well attested by their faith, '''did not receive what was promised''', since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us '''they should not be made perfect''.
::They had to wait, because they had not yet been saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and born again of water and the Spirit.<br>--[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 16:04, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
== Regenerative salvation by water and the Spirit: water baptism saves ==
== Regenerative salvation by water and the Spirit: water baptism saves ==