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→Regenerative salvation by water and the Spirit: water baptism saves: minor addn - specified [need for Christ] "by faith alone sola fide"
:The Law (or "the letter") killeth. Grace gives life. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 14:51, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
:The Law (or "the letter") killeth. Grace gives life. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 14:51, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
::"''So the gospel of salvation by grace has been preached since the beginning, long before the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ took place in fulfillment of the scriptures.''" You say they were already saved before any of this took place.<br>Either you have done away with the need for Christ by faith, or you have confirmed the doctrine of "baptism of desire" by which all those "spirits in prison" were freed by the preaching of Christ himself because of their hope which waited (they were forced to wait) for his baptism of them in fulfillment of their desire for salvation 1 Peter 3:18-21. ''Catechism of the Catholic Church'', '''1260'''
::"''So the gospel of salvation by grace has been preached since the beginning, long before the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ took place in fulfillment of the scriptures.''" You say they were already saved before any of this took place.<br>Either you have done away with the need for Christ by faith alone ''sola fide'', or you have confirmed the doctrine of "baptism of desire" by which all those "spirits in prison" were freed by the preaching of Christ himself because of their hope which waited (they were forced to wait) for his baptism of them in fulfillment of their desire for salvation 1 Peter 3:18-21. ''Catechism of the Catholic Church'', '''1260'''
:::"Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have ''desired Baptism explicitly'' if they had known its necessity."
:::"Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have ''desired Baptism explicitly'' if they had known its necessity."
::Hebrews 11:39-40 says most explicitly,
::Hebrews 11:39-40 says most explicitly,