Changes

:*I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser: Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean by the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not abide in me he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. Jn 15:1-6

:*I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser: Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean by the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not abide in me he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. Jn 15:1-6

:*For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are [[Schism|factious]] and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. Rm 2:6-11

:*For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are [[Schism|factious]] and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. Rm 2:6-11

:*You see that a man is '''justified''' by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24

:*You see that a man is '''justified''' by '''works''' and '''not by faith alone.''' James 2:24

:*For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit [[apostasy]], since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. He 6:4-6

:*For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit [[apostasy]], since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. He 6:4-6

:*He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Mt 12:30-31

:*He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Mt 12:30-31

::"while evil men and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for '''salvation''' through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every '''good work'''."

::"while evil men and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for '''salvation''' through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every '''good work'''."

::It does not say "the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for '''salvation''' through faith alone". <br>It does not say "All scripture is inspired by God as the sole rule of faith". <br>It does not say that faith alone is enough, but it says that the scriptures make us "equipped for every good work". "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Ep 2:10  

::It does not say "the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for '''salvation''' through faith alone". <br>It does not say "All scripture is inspired by God as the sole rule of faith". <br>It does not say that faith alone is enough, but it says that the scriptures make us "equipped for every good work". "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Ep 2:10  

:James says "You see that a man is '''justified''' by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24. <br>Martin Luther contradicted this doctrine. He said James is a "strawy epistle" and that he found nothing of the Gospel in it, and removed it to an appendix of uninspired writings in his German Bible. <br> The Bible is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, but works are necessary, since a man is '''justified''' by works and not by faith alone. The Bible is authoritative, but not by itself alone. {{unsigned|User:Dataclarifier}}

:James says "You see that a man is '''justified''' by '''works''' and '''not by faith alone.'''" James 2:24. <br>Martin Luther contradicted this doctrine. He said James is a "strawy epistle" and that he found nothing of the Gospel in it, and removed it to an appendix of uninspired writings in his German Bible. <br> The Bible is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, but works are necessary, since a man is '''justified''' by '''works''' and '''not by faith alone.''' The Bible is authoritative, but not by itself alone. {{unsigned|User:Dataclarifier}}

:::::I can speak freely because I am from a devout Catholic background. While I have embraced the teachings of Luther, Wesley, and even Calvin, I'm the first guy to get offended when my Protestant brethren trash talk the Catholic church. I am Catholic in the true sense as articulated in the ''Epistolen Katholika'' (I used to like tweeking Lutherans by explaining to them how they really are Catholic).   

:::::I can speak freely because I am from a devout Catholic background. While I have embraced the teachings of Luther, Wesley, and even Calvin, I'm the first guy to get offended when my Protestant brethren trash talk the Catholic church. I am Catholic in the true sense as articulated in the ''Epistolen Katholika'' (I used to like tweeking Lutherans by explaining to them how they really are Catholic).   

====Point three of the analysis====

====Point three of the analysis====

:'''Point three of the analysis.''' From the Bible we see that even if a person is baptized into the body of Christ and believes, subsequent loss of belief and falling away (παραπίπτω ''parapipto'' "apostasy") from Christ afterward will condemn them to hell (Hebrews 6:7-8; John 15:6), unless someone brings them back to repentance (James 5:19-20; ''The Catechism of the Catholic Church'' CCC numbers 811-870 and 1422-1470.). "You see that a man is '''justified''' by works and not by faith alone", "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead." "For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." Rm 2:6 <br>We also see from the Bible in the words of Jesus himself "every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." It is evident from the word of Jesus himself that his  sacrificial death of infinite and eternal value is insufficient to cleanse this mortal sin of blasphemous and irredeemable unrepentance.

:'''Point three of the analysis.''' From the Bible we see that even if a person is baptized into the body of Christ and believes, subsequent loss of belief and falling away (παραπίπτω ''parapipto'' "apostasy") from Christ afterward will condemn them to hell (Hebrews 6:7-8; John 15:6), unless someone brings them back to repentance (James 5:19-20; ''The Catechism of the Catholic Church'' CCC numbers 811-870 and 1422-1470.). "You see that a man is '''justified''' by '''works''' and '''not by faith alone'''", "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead." "For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." Rm 2:6 <br>We also see from the Bible in the words of Jesus himself "every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." It is evident from the word of Jesus himself that his  sacrificial death of infinite and eternal value is insufficient to cleanse this mortal sin of blasphemous and irredeemable unrepentance.

:Your analysis, above, concluded that the argument is "While baptism qualifies a person for adoption into God's family, it is no guarantee; '''salvation''' still must be earned by good works, or at least the sacrificial death of Jesus is insufficient to cleanse one of certain sins." The Bible supports this argument, as seen above in the passages cited from the Bible alone. {{unsigned|User:Dataclarifier}}

:Your analysis, above, concluded that the argument is "While baptism qualifies a person for adoption into God's family, it is no guarantee; '''salvation''' still must be earned by good works, or at least the sacrificial death of Jesus is insufficient to cleanse one of certain sins." The Bible supports this argument, as seen above in the passages cited from the Bible alone. {{unsigned|User:Dataclarifier}}

:::::::You're taking what is a primary Catholic doctrine, that those outside the Covenants of Abraham and David, can be ''grafted in'' to the family of God, and perverting it into a universal doctrine of Law, ''which is no gospel at all''. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]} 09:00, 3 November 2019 (EST)

:::::::You're taking what is a primary Catholic doctrine, that those outside the Covenants of Abraham and David, can be ''grafted in'' to the family of God, and perverting it into a universal doctrine of Law, ''which is no gospel at all''. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]} 09:00, 3 November 2019 (EST)

:::::*You see that a man is '''justified''' by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24

:::::*You see that a man is '''justified''' by '''works''' and '''not by faith alone.''' James 2:24

:::::::This has been debated to death. James says works are evidence of faith. Nowhere does James say you are '''''saved''''' by works. It's basically a discussion of the practical (James) versus the theoretical (Paul). James is rebuking carnal Christians - people who are Christian in name only - and have not fully put their trust in Christ.  [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]} 09:07, 3 November 2019 (EST)

:::::::This has been debated to death. James says works are evidence of faith. Nowhere does James say you are '''''saved''''' by works. It's basically a discussion of the practical (James) versus the theoretical (Paul). James is rebuking carnal Christians - people who are Christian in name only - and have not fully put their trust in Christ.  [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]} 09:07, 3 November 2019 (EST)

:::::*Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. Revelation 22:12. <br> --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 01:17, 3 November 2019 (EST)

:::::*Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. Revelation 22:12. <br> --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 01:17, 3 November 2019 (EST)

:*I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser: Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean by the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not abide in me he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15:1-6

:*I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser: Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean by the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not abide in me he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15:1-6

:*For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are [[Schism|factious]] and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. Romans 2:6-11

:*For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are [[Schism|factious]] and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. Romans 2:6-11

:*You see that a man is '''justified''' by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24

:*You see that a man is '''justified''' by '''works''' and '''not by faith alone.''' James 2:24

:*For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit [[apostasy]], since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. Hebrews 6:4-6

:*For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit [[apostasy]], since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. Hebrews 6:4-6

:*He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Matthew 12:30-31

:*He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Matthew 12:30-31