Talk:Debate: O Separated Christians, Return to your Mother

NB: This article is not complete. It has three parts. I'm too tired to complete the other ones right now. But I will do it subsequently. I look forward to scholarly debate on the subject of the identity of the (1) Woman of Gen 3:15, Who with Christ is the enemy of Satan (2) the Woman of Rev 12:1, Who is gloriously Crowned in Heaven as Queen; (3) the Woman of Rev 12:17, Who is clearly our Mother, the Mother of all Christians, making Her identity important. Who is She? This article contends, of course, She is Mary, the Mother of God, of Jesus Christ Our Lord, and of all of us, of all Christians. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 11:31, 6 July 2020 (EDT)

It non-scriptural, so you're likely to only get Satanists to participate. RobS^{Trump 2Q2Q} 11:37, 6 July 2020 (EDT)

I thought Satanists prefer to trash Mary rather than venerate her. —Liberaltears^{May Dataclarifier be well!} 11:52, 6 July 2020 (EDT)

Whatever. It's non-scriptural and this is a non-scriptural discussion. It's deceptive to mislead people to think somewhere the salvation of God lays at the end of it. RobS^{Trump 2Q2Q} 12:05, 6 July 2020 (EDT)

Go back and re-read my discussion with Dataclarifier on the meaning of John 8:44,

• “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it,”

which Dataclarifier tried to ignore and obscure. I found his response both misleading, evasive and in denial. And he again tries to ignore the meaning of this verse in both his Essay and Debate pages, and uses the fleshly Nazi interpretation of the verse. RobS^{Trump 2Q2Q} 12:14, 6 July 2020 (EDT)

Liberal Tears, you're right, Satanists do that.

Rob Smith, let's cut to the chase. Who is the Woman of Gen 3:15, the enemy of Satan, and who is the Woman of Rev 12:1-17, Mother of Jesus and of all Christians? It's a simple question, and the answer too, is simpler than one might think. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 20:40, 6 July 2020 (EDT)

The woman is Israel. RobS^{Trump 2Q2Q} 21:03, 6 July 2020 (EDT)

Disagree. Israel was unfaithful to God at the time that Revelation was written. Israel would have been portrayed as a Weeping Widow at best and an Adulteress at worst. Our Lady is shown as Mother and Queen because She is Mother of Jesus and Mother of us all. That is how Mary appeared in Guadalupe, Mexico, and taught those who were mistakenly worshiping snakes to serve the living God, Jesus Her Son, and Herself as Queen of Creation.

Proofs it is not Israel that is primarily spoken of: Israel was unfaithful and the Woman is clearly faithful and rewarded for it. Therefore, it is not about Israel but about the Virgin Mother Mary. Also, Gen 3 clearly speaks about the Virgin Birth, the Man Who will be the Seed of a Woman alone, for He will be born without a human father; i.e. He is Christ, as Isaiah (7:14) would much later explicitly confirm. Hence, the Woman is Mary. NishantXavier^{For Christ the King} 11:29, 7 July 2020 (EDT)

Let's separate the two; Gen. 3:15 speaks of the coming promises made to Abraham, in thee shall all nations be blessed and later the Davidic covenant, as well. Gen. 3:15 refers to the promise and prophecy that the redeemer will come through Israel, of which Mary is representative; Rev. 1:17, the remnant of her seed speaks specifically of a Jewish remnant and not of a gentile church. RobS^{Trump 2Q2Q} 13:25, 7 July 2020 (EDT)

Basically, there's no disagreement here; I say Israel and you say Mary through whom the promises to Israel were fulfilled. You claim however that Mary has some message for the gentile church, for which you'll be hard pressed to produce any scriptural evidence for. RobS^{Trump 2Q2Q} 14:07, 7 July 2020 (EDT)