Talk:Lazarus and the Rich Man

What translation?

What translation is this page from? Is it done in accordance with the licensing for that translation? --Mtur 15:54, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Given a Name

Lazarus was given a name because he is a real person. Every time Jesus said "A certain man..." the parable was based on a true story. --Steve 07:57, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

A couple of questions

I've just come across this (on Wikipedia, then I went here to get a different perspective) in one of those bouts of curiosity and fascination with religion I'm prone to, and I have a couple of questions.

1. Is this included in the Conservapedia Bible Project?
2. Does the rich man's plea for resurrection have any possible link to the other Biblical Lazarus, who was resurrected?--CamilleT 16:35, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

Sleep

Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep.

I'll take God's word over man's word. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 18:13, February 14, 2023 (EST)

What a joke. Denial of physical death as "just a sleep" is denialism. A doctrine that teaches there is no physical mortality until a person is resurrected to face judgement and sent to hell, where they are annihilated, essentially teaches that there is no need to repent now cause death doesn't happen, and eternal torment in hell doesn't exist. In short, you can continue to live in sin.

Let's look at Cult#Definitions_of_.22cult.22, cited to Josh McDowell:

• They claim to have a new revelation from God.
• They claim to have an exclusive interpretation of Scripture.
• They have a source of authority that supersedes the Bible.
• They have a view of Jesus contrary to biblical teaching.
• They reject orthodox Christianity as having departed from what it should be.

Mcdowell has more, like this:

• They require "works", and never teach that salvation is simply by placing one's faith in Christ.

Nah. it ain't gonna work, replacing CP's Christianity series with Seven Day Adventism. I would suggest reading Dr. Walter Martin's teaching on cults and Seven Day Adventism. Martin, who's widely recognized as an authority on cults, and more specifically, what the appeal of cults are and why people respond to them, does not come down as hard on Seven Day Adventism as he does the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 20:47, February 14, 2023 (EST)

Ah yes, because I'm sure the doctrines of Josh McDowell and Walter Martin are on part with the inspired word of God. Also, a) you don't even understand biblical teachings, b) "orthodox" Christianity is full of unbiblical doctrines, and c) preaching a doctrine of eternal torment in hell is blasphemy against God's character by portraying Him as infinitely vengeful. Rather than let Scripture make itself clear to you, you have let your own twisted dogmas get interfere with a biblical approach. So you're just full of liberal denial—Personal remark removed—LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Wednesday, 21:00, February 14, 2023 (EST)

There's even a 5 part series on video. [1] You can listen to Dr. Martin pick apart cult teachings point-by-point, but his summary explanation of what the appeal is, and why people respond, is always even more fascinating. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:06, February 14, 2023 (EST)

How cute—Personal remark removed judges others as alleged cultic heretics!

“	Judge not, that you be not judged.	”
—Matthew 7:1

—LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Wednesday, 21:09, February 14, 2023 (EST)

So, are you saying soul sleep is not denial of mortality? RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:19, February 14, 2023 (EST)

Very nice, you actually expect me to answer your reply right as you censor my replies. —LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Wednesday, 21:23, February 14, 2023 (EST)

Take 'em as warnings, stop personal attacks, and address the topic under discussion. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:25, February 14, 2023 (EST)

If you wanna trash Josh McDowell or Dr. Martin, have at it (hopefully, with something of substance). But please don't trash talk other editors. Thanks. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:28, February 14, 2023 (EST)

[EC] Remember that time you compared me to Nazis? And now you're suddenly against personal attacks? How exceedingly reliable and trustworthy of you. Also, given all the numerous times you have deliberately diverted conversations, including just yesterday, perhaps you shouldn't be surprised that you're being beaten at your own game. Those who live by the sword die by the sword! —LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Wednesday, 21:31, February 14, 2023 (EST)

Compared to nazis? No, I don't remember. But if you choose to go to hell, which is a choice, you will be in the eternal company of Hitler, Himmler, and Eichmann. Few would dispute that. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:36, February 14, 2023 (EST)

[EC] Of course you "don't remember." Well, here's the anchor link which shows you calling some Nazis as my supposed "compatriots." And do I resort to censoring your comment even when you're point-blank making a vile comparison against me? No. —LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Wednesday, 21:41, February 14, 2023 (EST)

(ec) (except perhaps a minority of adherents to the doctrine of annihilationism.)

“

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

”

RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:49, February 14, 2023 (EST)

he that believeth shall not make haste

Reiterating what I said earlier, "there is no need to repent now cause death doesn't happen, and eternal torment in hell doesn't exist." That's what Adventism teaches. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:59, February 14, 2023 (EST)

Another one of your propaganda distortions—you really don't understand, do you? Romans 6:23 makes it clear that every individual has two choices: death or eternal life. It's either being obliterated in Hell or rejoicing eternally in Heaven. If you actually "need" to use the eternal torment fearmongering tactic just to convince people to faith, then you never preached the true gospel in the first place. All you're doing is blaspheming God's character. —LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Wednesday, 22:03, February 14, 2023 (EST)

Eternal torment is being eternally banished from God's presence. It has nothing to do with getting stabbed in the butt with a pitchfork or roasted like BBQ. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:10, February 14, 2023 (EST)

“

Today is the day of salvation

”

Soul sleep and annihilationism say you can put it off cause there is nothing to worry about. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:14, February 14, 2023 (EST)

Soul sleep and annihilationism pander to pride and vanity, saying you do not need to humble yourself before God, you can delay it and continue to live in sin. All cults essentially use this approach to nullify the word of God. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:16, February 14, 2023 (EST)

"blaspheming God's character." If God is just, he must do as he said he would do - cut off sinners from his presence (some might characterize this as "must punish sinners"). You're argument about God's character essentially says that God does not mean what he says. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:21, February 14, 2023 (EST)

Suggestion: if you want to contribute this stuff, create separate articles on soul sleep, annihilationism, etc. Place them in category:Seven Day Adventism, and add a sentence or two to various articles in the Christian series, with, "According to Seven Day Adventist bla bla bla". but you can't replace Christian doctrine with Seven Day Adventism. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:36, February 14, 2023 (EST)

[EC] You don't even understand Christian doctrine! —LT ^{(Matthew 26:52)} Wednesday, 21:41, February 14, 2023 (EST)

I'm listening to Part 2 of the Johnsson v. Martin debate; Johnsson just avowed the doctrine of eternal security (he said, "the Judgement Seat of Christ will have no bearing on my eternal destiny"). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:49, February 14, 2023 (EST)

Ok, so I completed viewing all 2 1/2 hours of the Martin v. Johnsson debate. I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to pursue the Adventist cult. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:09, February 15, 2023 (EST)

Review: In 1955-1957, Dr. Walter Martin of the Christian Research Institute (CRI) investigated claims that Adventism was a cult. After numerous interviews and exchanges with church leaders, Martin gave them a clean bill of health saying there was enough of Christian doctrine there to count Adventism as a denomination in Evangelical Christianity. Fast forward. In more recent decades, church leaders and official church publications began once again reverting to their old ways of considering Ellen G. White as a divinely inspired prophet, and tossed out church leaders, pastors, and teachers who adhered to the reformed church which disavowed White's writings. That's where this debate, filmed in 1984 comes in. The Aussie leader of the church tries to defend what was happening worldwide, and seems a bit confused on much of everything about what his church was teaching. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:18, February 15, 2023 (EST)

You can pick up the debate here in Part 2 (time prompted) and watch as much as you want. SDA presents some interesting problems. Dr. Martin says straight out, he believes Ellen White was a Christian. The problem is, the SDA follows her teaching. So even one wacked out Christian can lead a whole denomination astray. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 10:18, February 15, 2023 (EST)

The light of this world

While we're on John chap 11, I thought it would be interesting to look at this brief section:

If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. 10 But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.

• light of this world = Jesus, obviously.

• the light is not in him. Hmmm, the light has to be in him, not external to the person to light their path. The spirit of Jesus (or God, or Holy Spirit, or "the word" must be inside the person). Keep this in mind when reading passages such as whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has (present tense) eternal life. He does not come into judgment (i.e. is "saved" from judgement), but has passed from death to life (present tense. Once the Word of God is inside you have already passed from death to life.)

Rule of thumb: if someone does not understand this basic teaching of the Bible, don't pay much attention when they start talking about an afterlife, future prophecies, mark of the beast, anti-christ, etc etc etc). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 03:45, February 15, 2023 (EST)