Talk:Nord Stream pipeline

Mark Bowden

Mark Bowden, author of Blackhawk Down, has produced the most impressive investigation of the Nordstream bombing yet. At least it blows away Seymour Hersh's account. Bowden fingers a Ukrainian group that supposedly used the yacht Andromeda. The leader of the group is named as Roman Chervinsky, "a colonel in Ukraine’s special operations forces." This is based on a series of articles that appeared in Der Spiegel. I don't think this can be considered the whole story. Is it likely that the Ukrainians acted without Biden's approval? PeterKa (talk) 00:47, December 15, 2023 (EST)

IMO, the Der Speigel stories are targeted at German audiences, who don't want to believe the United States would deliberately set Germany back into the dark ages.

I think the story lies somewhere between Seymour Hersh's account, vis-a-vis the White House/Jake Sullivan/Executive Office Building meetings, and Monkeywerx (the air traffic controller) who has recorded evidence of a Poseidon submarine hunter destroying it from the air with a missile at the time in question. (IOWs, you can discount Hersh's stuff about Panama City divers, at least on the night of the attack. Hersh does reference Poseidons however, and there likely was Norwegian involvement, too, as Hersh claims). RobS^{Zelensky didn't kill himself} 01:30, December 15, 2023 (EST)

A stationary pipeline would be easier to hit from the air than a moving target like a submarine.

The stuff Hersh says about Panama City divers months in advance may well be true, but their involvement on the night in question wouldn't make much sense. RobS^{Zelensky didn't kill himself} 01:36, December 15, 2023 (EST)

Bowden gave his sources as this Washington Post story and this Der Spiegal story. His much-vaunted contacts in the U.S. military seem to have been less than helpful: "My own military and intelligence sources were unanimous in discounting the idea of American responsibility." PeterKa (talk)

Well, you can't have the Germans believing America would do it deliberately. And since when do US military refuse an order from the commander-in-chief? RobS^{Zelensky didn't kill himself} 02:31, December 15, 2023 (EST)

I don't see any good motive for the attack, regardless of whether it was Russians or Americans. Perhaps its about bragging rights. When these intelligence officers were kids, they saw the Twin Towers collapse and thought, "If Bush can away with that, I can too." PeterKa (talk) 09:07, December 15, 2023 (EST)

As Blinken said, it created a "tremendous opportunity" for US oil companies. RobS^{Zelensky didn't kill himself} 10:05, December 15, 2023 (EST)

But there was no oil flowing, and no likelihood that it would flow anytime soon. Biden is trying to shut down the U.S. oil industry, not give it tremendous opportunities. Blinken meant that it was an opportunity to reduce Europe's dependence on Russian oil. Bottom line, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be 9/11 Truthers. PeterKa (talk) 18:07, December 15, 2023 (EST)

It was a natural gas pipeline, not crude oil. The natural gas was used for home heating and generating electrical power plants. Electric rates are up 400% since, and factories closed, with layoffs. Plus they're back to burning coal in power plants and carbon emissions, despite the Green Party driving Germany's foreign policy (Annalena Baerbock) agenda.

And it just wasn't up to full capacity of what it was capable of delivering at the time it was destroyed.RobS^{Zelensky didn't kill himself} 18:20, December 15, 2023 (EST)

Chervinsky reported "disappeared". [1] RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 12:09, April 23, 2024 (EDT)