User talk:Ed Poor/18

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Ed Poor on campus


  • Document.
  • Explain what it is.

Please leave a message at the tone..... --ṬK/Admin/Talk 19:37, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

Writing Plan

I wish to make positive contributions to the project by improving the science and technology articles in any way possible; I am very interested in science, though I am hardly an expert.

(Was this sufficient? Is more required?) --JohnLee 22:18, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

  1. I didn't say you had to stop writing till you submitted a plane.
  2. Your plan is vague, please be more specific. --Ed Poor Talk 17:59, 29 November 2010 (EST)

Compass and Straightedge

What is going on? You seem to be engaging in "editing by flamethrower"! The recent deletion of the Compass and straightedge article was totally wrong, and destroyed an important part of middle-school mathematics. I feel responsible for this, because I had brought this to your attention just two days before. Here is the relevant clip from my email:

But have you looked at the "compass and straightedge" article? I finally got around to reading the whole thing. It reeks of parody! See for yourself. Ask yourself whether ancient Greek sailors used compasses to guide their navigation, drawing circles with them. Or whether geometric figures like triangles were inspired by the shape of an oar.

(By the way, I didn't consider it the least bit funny. In another context, maybe, but this was plain vandalism.)

"Reeks of parody" seems to have overstated the case. My intention was to have you fix those few sentences, not delete the entire article! Many people had contributed to that article before the parody, and the article is important. All those people's work has now been destroyed.

Please restore the article if Andy hasn't done so already, and take out the parody. As I said in my email, there are a few other minor improvements that need to be made. I will do them.

On another matter, my recent edits to algebra were an attempt to lay to rest the conflict between you and me over writing math articles at the right educational level. I believe that what I wrote was the level that you have been looking for. Please tell me if you find it satisfactory. And feel free to take it to the next level, which would be solving quadratics. (There's already a page about the quadratic formula, but that material should be in the algebra article also.) I really want to be able to collaborate with you, in a harmonious atmosphere, on math articles. But I can't do it if you still think I'm going at this all wrong.

SamHB 21:51, 8 October 2010 (EDT)

I wish you would take direction from me. I'm a senior editor here, and you are a new writer. Please help, or be elsewhere. I'd also like to see your Conservapedia:Writing plan. --Ed Poor Talk 16:30, 10 October 2010 (EDT)

Article re Atheist Meeting

Ed, I know I've only been around now and again - the family and work come first! - but I have the real inside scoop on an atheist meeting in the UK. Some really big names, some really shocking talks.

I'd like your advice on how best to report it. A contribution on a talk page seems like a waste of really good material but I don't know if it justifies a whole new encyclopedia entry.

I'd also appreciate some guidance on the style and content. Can I run the story past you somewhere less public and you can give me feedback?

Thanks Rafael

I check my email every week. --Ed Poor Talk 10:27, 13 November 2010 (EST)

Math Plans, from SamHB


Please see the bottom of my user page for a summary of what I'd like do, in collaboration with you. I'm also going to call User:JamesWilson's attention to this.

I've picked out 4 things that I think are interesting and fruitful to work on. I believe you have also been interested, to some extent, in each of these. I solicit your advice on how to proceed—which ones you would like me to work on, which one you want to work on yourself, and any advice you might have, or criticism of my past writing.

I'm quite serious about wanting comments from you on my past writing. You have, on many occasions, made your general philosophy known—making things understandable to the audience, as opposed to showing off the author's own expertise. And I am completely in agreement with it, as far as I know. But all previous attempts to get you to comment on my writing have been unsuccessful. In particular, there was quite a bit of discussion of the Algebra page, including my sending you, by email, a proposed draft of the article, along the lines that you had requested some time earlier in this comment. That email, at 2:15PM, Oct 3, 2010, also contained the following request:

But, before doing that [rewriting the algebra page, which was attached], I'd like to know whether you think I'm on the right track. Please let me know. Better yet, edit it [my attachment] on top of the existing page.

I later (after getting unblocked) made the edit myself, and you have neither reverted it nor commented on it. I'm fairly sure that you find it satisfactory, but a word from you would be most helpful.

There aren't many math contributors around these days. With the possible exception of James Wilson, you and I seem to be the only prolific and knowledgeable editors on this topic. But we have a combined math SAT score or 1530, so we really ought to be able to do a good job. Please work with me.

Here are the four articles that I have picked out; I have also summarized them on my own talk page.

  • Compass and straightedge—This needs more work. You say that you never took plane geometry, but went straight into analytic geometry. My suggestion is that you work on this, for just that reason. You could give the article a fresh perspective. And Andy has often said something like (can't find an exact reference just now) "It's more educational to write a book than to read a book." Now I took plane geometry in 10th grade or whatever, and, because I was a math major in college, I could step in for the impossibility proofs. But I'd like your perspective on how to start the article.
  • Elementary Algebra—This was the subject of the mail alluded to above. What do you think of the changes that I made? Is the next step to talk about quadratic equations? Or perhaps polynomial factoring? Or something else? Would you like me to do it, or do you want to work on this yourself?
  • Peano axioms—There is at present no article on this subject. I think it would be very interesting and fascinating for our readers. And it can be done in an accessible way. It's really not esoteric. Anyone old enough to appreciate what "theorems" are, and that you "prove" them (as opposed to taking your teacher's word for them), can appreciate this. People probably cross this threshold around 9th grade or so, usually in the context of elementary plane geometry. (I can't believe that you never took plane geometry! But I'm sure you developed an appreciation of proofs in whatever classes you were taking at the time.) Now most people have been doing ordinary arithmetic for a long time before learning about theorems, and they think they know that addition is commutative. So you go to these people and ask "So how do you know that addition is commutative? Can you give me a proof? Aha! That is what the Peano axioms are about.
  • Center—This has been a disaster for a long time. I really don't know how to write the "headline" sentence for this; that is, what's the first thing you say about what the "center" of a geometrical shape is? Do you have any ideas? I'd really like to see your take on this article; I really don't know how to begin.

I await your reply and guidance.

SamHB 22:14, 28 November 2010 (EST)

Okay, I fibbed. I did take some plane geometry (as part of other courses). I meant that I never took a class called Plane geometry. I've proved theorems in it.
I'd like you to do all the writing. I look over your shoulder and criticize, if you really want feedback. Please start with the most elementary stuff, and work your way up from there.
High school algebra should come first, then the concept of a Theorem and how to prove it. Let's take a detour and write all about symbolic logic (at least the Propositional calculus) before getting into the Peano axioms.
Once we've finished all of high school math, then you (as a math major) may proceed to college-level topics. We need to become a reliable resource for 90% of the readers who consult an encyclopedia for mathematics, before we start catering to those seeking more esoteric information, if you ask me. (You can always work with Roger Schlafly, if you can't wait.) --Ed Poor Talk 17:56, 29 November 2010 (EST)

Another Ed

Funny to see another Ed with an interest in computers! I've created Category:Computer_tips to organize a number of your articles, and completed the set of articles on CSS's text-decoration which you began with a discussion of underline. Hope you'll add some more tidbits to this category! --EdS 18:52, 19 December 2010 (EST)

The point is not to follow the pattern I started, blindly. After a number of tiny standalone articles have been created, we ought to think about consolidating them.
We aim not at completeness, but ease of access. The standard is, "How is easy is it to find the information when you need it in a hurry?" (Note that blinking text is not an important feature for most web designers, as it annoys users.) --Ed Poor Talk 21:01, 19 December 2010 (EST)
"How easy is it to find the information when you need it in a hurry?" sounds more like a standard for a CSS reference sheet than an encyclopedia... is there some page here with such standards codified? I confess that the existence of the page "move mysql column" left me somewhat mystified. --EdS 21:08, 19 December 2010 (EST)
I see that you've taken issue with some of my articles on conservative figures, so I think I'll start writing computer articles again. Lest I cause you any more trouble so you have to move my articles around, could you give me some guideline for what makes a computer-related article appropriate for mainspace? --EdS 16:35, 20 December 2010 (EST)


Hi Mr. Poor,

I sent you an email through the Email user feature on the left, just as a note. I don't know how often everyone checks their emails through here and I wanted to mention it you on your talk page to be sure. If you have any questions my email ( is always available. Thank you! Tyler Zoran Talk 15:03, 29 December 2010 (EST)

Writing Plan

Hello Mr. Poor, I would like to submit a writing plan. While I haven't been asked for one, I feel this would best help keep me on task and contribute the most productively. You seem to know an awful lot about this wiki stuff, and I'm still new at it, so if you could help me that would be great. I think I'd first like to help contribute to the various book articles around the site by adding in examples of the influence of Christianity, as a lot of books have Christian overtones that aren't currently listed. I'm thinking I'd like to start by drawing parallels between the story of Jesus in the Gospels with One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Please let me know if this would be acceptable.--JeremiahJ 18:10, 6 January 2011 (EST)

Probably not. Please email me a draft. --Ed Poor Talk 20:02, 17 January 2011 (EST)


Hello Mr. Poor, I have submitted a request here but it was never attended to. Could you please have a look at it? Thanks, AnupamTalk 23:19, 28 February 2011 (EST)

Image Upload Request

Hello Ed Poor, I hope this message finds you doing well. I was wondering if you could upload this image for use in the article I recently created. I look forward to hearing your response. Thanks, AnupamTalk 03:32, 7 March 2011 (EST)

Hello Ed Poor, could you please add Atheism and the suppression of science to this template? I really appreciate it! With regards, AnupamTalk 11:14, 7 March 2011 (EST)
Hello Ed Poor, I need two more images for the article I created which are available here and here. Recently, User:JMR10 uploaded my previous one, for which I am thankful. Could you ask him to do the same for these two or could you please do these for me? I highly appreciate it. Thanks, AnupamTalk 19:40, 7 March 2011 (EST)

I seem to have messed up the Ada article

My proxy keeps dropping stuff, so the picture at the top is busted. Also, I had to cut down the reference, because the captcha can't make it through. It should have a left bracket, and h,t,t,p, etc., and a right bracket after the "pdf". I wonder if you could please fix it for me. I will contact Andy about getting my IP range restored.

What I was going to put in the talk page (and will do once things get straightened out) is that the two cited articles are very shallow, having only 7 and 3 sentences, respectively. They both refer to a "plan", but that's because the word "program" hadn't been coined in the computer context. She really was the first person to write "code".

I'm sorry about this. SamHB 00:08, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

I read her notes, and it doesn't look like a computer program to me. A charitable view might be that it's a spec, but there's no flowchart and no source code. Don't be sorry, just get it right. --Ed Poor Talk 18:21, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

What did you expect this "source code" to look like? The term "source code" implies both a programming language and "machine code" that the source code is assembled or compiled into. Assemblers, compilers, and programming languages wouldn't be invented for another hundred years (by Grace Murray Hopper, John Backus, and others.) The same goes for the other accoutrements of modern software development, like flow charts and specifications. In fact, even the terms "software" and "program" hadn't been invented.

Furthermore, assuming that you accept that she had to write "machine code", what would you expect machine code to look like for a machine that reads its instructions with rods poking through holes in large punched cards running around on a track, and does its arithmetic by counting teeth on turning gears? It wouldn't look much like Intel 586 code.

The fact is, the lines of Ada's written algorithm were intended to be punched into lines of holes in Babbage's cards, once the "analytical engine" was built, which it wasn't.

By the way, what I was being "sorry" for was not the content of my edit, but the fact that an extremely buggy proxy messed up the article and wouldn't let me fix it, despite several tries. Andy has been working with me to fix the network problems, and DMorris fixed the broken picture and hyperlink while my access was broken. SamHB 20:39, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

Then it would be more accurate to say that she described an algorithm. That's not the same as a computer program, even if she was hoping that Babbage's machine might be programmed to carry out the algorithm.
An encyclopedia should be precise and unbiased, not used to create "factoids" for use in publicity campaigns, such as promoting women in science.
I don't say she had to write machine code, but rather to be the "first programmer" she would have had to produce a computer program. If you have seen it, please show it to me. Otherwise, I'm going to make an editorial decision that she produced an algorithm rather than a program. --Ed Poor Talk 12:18, 7 April 2011 (EDT)

Blocked simply for logging in from a NASA-owned computer

Hi Ed-

Of all the admins on this website, I find your entries the most relevant and well thought out. I am an employee at NASA Ames Research Center, and thought that I could contribute to this encyclopedia. However, upon creation of my account, it was instantly blocked by 'Karajou' before I could even make a single contribution. Please see

The reason for being blocked was 'Abuse of a computer system owned by the U.S. or other Government: NASA'. Are all NASA employees blocked from Conservapedia? I find it very strange that one would instantly block any user from one of the United States' first and foremost research institutions.

Thank you, and I hope that this is looked into. I cannot imagine any encyclopedia being successful if it does not allow for entries by respected scientific entities. AMorg

The anti-Semitism of liberals

I love how libs reveal their true selves. No matter what we say or do in describing them, they come here just to confirm it all. So when they want to emphasize "Jew" in "karajou", I'll be more then happy to get a gold Magen David to wear around my neck, join my brothers and sisters in the synagogue every week, and show everyone else just how hate-filled and intolerant these liberals really are. Karajou 14:20, 12 April 2011 (EDT)

Please help!

Hi! I tried to add the information for Edo to the Tokyo article and for some reason,. it stripped a bunch of stuff out when I saved. Now when I try and revert the edit I made, I keep getting a internal server 500 error. Please can you revert for me? TracyS 10:19, 14 April 2011 (EDT)

It's ok, I fixed it! TracyS 10:30, 14 April 2011 (EDT)
I'm glad it worked out for you. My Japanese name is "Edo". --Ed Poor Talk 11:04, 14 April 2011 (EDT)