Talk:Racist atheism

Andy, I don't think the historical evidence supports that Hitler was an atheist.

Andy, could you and others do a scholarly article on Hitler's Table Talk. The Wikipedia article cites the atheist historian Richard Carrier and I think it is probably a mistake to cite Carrier (I don't think he is a good historian). HERE is Wikipedia's article.

Also, could you/others write an article on Religious views of Adolf Hitler. HERE is the Wikipedia article on the topic.

Historiography principles to keep in mind:

• Some keen insights from Pulitzer Prize–winner David Hackett Fischer

• Introduction to history

• 7 habits of highly effective historians

"Fischer, David Hackett, Historians’ Fallacies: Toward a Logic of Historical Thought (New York: Harper Collins, 1970). In only approximately 300 pages, Fischer surveys an immense amount of background historical literature to point out a comprehensive variety of analytical errors that many, if not most, historians commit. Fischer points out specific examples of faulty or sloppy reasoning in the work of even the most prominent historians, making it a useful book for beginning students of history. While this book presumably did not make Fischer popular with many of his peers, it should be noted that his contributions as a historian have not been limited simply to criticizing the work of others; since 1976, he has published a number of well-received books on other historical topics."[1]

Fischer's 7 habits of sound historiography:

Fischer's 7 rules for historians taken from Josh McDowell's book The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict:

(1) The burden of proof for a historical claim is always upon the one making the assertion.

(2) Historical evidence must be an answer to the question asked and not to any other question.

(3) "An historian must not merely provide good evidence, but the best evidence. And the best evidence, all other things being equal, is the evidence which is most nearly immediate to the event itself."

(4) Evidence must always be affirmative. Negative evidence is no evidence at all. In other words, Fischer is saying that an absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence.

(5) The meaning of any historical evidence is dependent upon the context from which it is obtained from.

(6) "An empirical statement must not be more precise than its evidence warrants."

(7) "All inferences from historical evidence are probabilistic."

Josh McDowell's Evidence that Demands a Verdict, page 674, 1999, Mark MCGarry, Texas Type and Book Works, Dallas, TX, ISBN 0-7852-4219-8)

Fischer's 6 principles of question framing for historical investigations:

• Fischer's 6 principles of question framing

I think Conservapedia should strive to have the best material on Hitler's views based on sound historical analysis. Conservative 22:35, 19 June 2015 (EDT)

Wouldn't Hitler have called himself an atheist today? He was not religious.--Andy Schlafly 23:12, 19 June 2015 (EDT)

Andy, A few points:

1. Nominal Protestants/Catholics/Muslims aren't religious either. However, they are all theists. In addition, agnostics are not atheists, but agnostics are often not religious. See David Hackett Fischer's rules #2 and #7 above which state "Historical evidence must be an answer to the question asked and not to any other question." and "All inferences from historical evidence are probabilistic."

2. Most of the Nones are theists.

3. Historical investigations are based on sound data and not speculations about hypothetical present events.

4. The burden of proof for historical claims is on the claimant and you are unconditionally, without reservation, declaring Adolf Hitler was an atheist without providing evidence of for this claim. See Fischer's rule #6 above which declares: "An empirical statement must not be more precise than its evidence warrants."

5. Conservapedia commandment #1 says "Everything you post must be true and verifiable".

How do we verify what Adolf Hitler would call himself today? He's dead. I am not being sarcastic/flippant here, but merely pointing out that Fischer rightly says, "The meaning of any historical evidence is dependent upon the context from which it is obtained from." See Fischer's rule #5 above. This point reflects that many so-called atheists today are really agnostics at best because many so-called atheists attempt to dilute the term atheism. See: Attempts to dilute the definition of atheism

And more importantly, you should be able to provide clear and compelling evidence using sound principles that Hitler was an atheist if you claim that he was (see David Hackettt Fischer's rules of historiography above).

6. Nazi General Gerhard Engel declared that in 1941 Hitler said, "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." Source: John Toland (1992). Adolf Hitler. New York: Anchor Publishing, p. 507.

Hitler was not a practicing Catholic. He may have been a nominal, cafeteria Catholic who wanted to inject ideas that he liked into Catholicism and remove Catholic doctrines that he not like from Catholicism. He appears to be an anti-Christian/anti-clerical theists.

He was also appeared to possibly be a evolutionist syncretist when it comes to religion who thought religion should "evolve". Hitler reportedly said (if Hitler's Table Talk is authentic), "When one thinks of the opinions held concerning Christianity by our best minds a hundred, two hundred years ago, one is ashamed to realise how little we have since evolved. I didn't know that Julian the Apostate had passed judgment with such clear-sightedness on Christianity and Christians ... the Galilean, who later was called the Christ, intended something quite different. He must be regarded as a popular leader who took up His position against Jewry ... and it's certain that Jesus was not a Jew. The Jews, by the way, regarded Him as the son of a whore—of a whore and a Roman soldier. The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul ... Paul of Tarsus (his name was Saul, before the road to Damascus) was one of those who persecuted Jesus most savagely." (Trevor-Roper, Hugh, ed. (2000). Hitler's Table Talk 1941–1944. Trans. Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens. New York: Engima Books, p. 76).

Joseph Goebbels wrote in 1941 that Hitler "hates Christianity, because it has crippled all that is noble in humanity."[2]

7. On the other hand, Michael Burleigh said regarding Hitler's worldview: "a mixture of materialist biology, a faux-Nietzschean contempt for core, as distinct from secondary, Christian values, and a visceral anti-clericalism." Source: (Burleigh, Michael (2001). The Third Reich - A New History. London: Pan Books. pp. 716–717.).

Hitler appears to have been found of the atheist Friedrich Nietzsche.[3]

Perhaps Adolf Hitler was an atheist, but I am leaning towards Hitler being a syncretist monotheist who mixed evolutionism into to his worldview. He clearly was an evolutionist though which can be seen by multiple pieces of clear evidence (Mein Kampf, etc.).[4]

8. My concluding point is that the evidence is not clear what Hitler's exact worldview was when it comes to religion/irreligion. Conservative 06:46, 20 June 2015 (EDT)