Difference between revisions of "Debate: Is Roman Catholic teaching on the Holy Spirit biblical?"

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==Antagonists==
 
==Antagonists==
 
Roman Catholic doctrine does not distinguish between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism, between John's baptism and Jesus' baptism.
 
Roman Catholic doctrine does not distinguish between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism, between John's baptism and Jesus' baptism.
 +
:Answer: Let's stipulate the Holy Spirit is called living water:
 +
 +
::The promise of living water
 +
 +
::He was speaking of the Spirit which those who believed in him were to receive; for there was no Spirit as yet because Jesus had not yet been glorified.—John 7:39
 +
 +
:and that Christ instituted the living water baptism:
 +
 +
::The coming of the Advocate
 +
 +
::Still, I must tell you the truth:
 +
::it is for your own good that I am going
 +
::because unless I go,
 +
::the Advocate will not come to you;
 +
::but if I do go,
 +
::I will send Him to you.—John 16:7
 +
 +
:First, does water baptism confer grace?
 +
 +
::[The coming of faith]
 +
 +
::All baptized in Christ, you have all clothed yourselves in Christ,...—Galatians 3:27
 +
 +
::This must be water baptism (Christ's name), but this verse shows this sacrament confers grace.
 +
 +
:After being sent by Christ, the Holy Spirit now pours the virtue of the love of God in our hearts:
 +
 +
::[Faith guarantees salvation]
 +
 +
::And this hope is not deceptive, because the love of God has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit which has been given us.—Romans 5:5
 +
 +
:In fact, the Holy Spirit ''is'' the mutual Love between God and Christ's believers.  This verse confirms the possibility:
 +
 +
::[A call to Christian living, and its reward]
 +
 +
::In making these gifts, he has given us the guarantee of something very great and wonderful to come: through them you will be able to share the divine nature and to escape corruption in a world that is sunk in vice.—2nd Peter 1:4
 +
 +
:Let's go back to the first verse:
 +
 +
::The promise of living water
 +
 +
::He was speaking of the Spirit which those who believed in him were to receive; for there was no Spirit as yet because Jesus had not yet been glorified.—John 7:39
 +
 +
:A second example of receiving the Holy Spirit God's self.
 +
 +
:Let's go back three verses:
 +
 +
::[Faith guarantees salvation]
 +
 +
::And this hope is not deceptive, because the love of God has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit which has been given us.—Romans 5:5
 +
 +
:Now grace is something always given by Love, the Love through which all free gifts are given.  We know the Holy Spirit is spiritually ''in'' the free gift of Love and consequently in all the free gifts he gives. And while the Holy Spirit's most characteristic free gift of God's self is ''sanctifying'' grace, it also applies to special graces like that pertaining to water baptism, in this case,
 +
 +
::ordered to a certain spiritual regeneration by which man dies to vice and becomes a member of Christ....—(Thomas Aquinas [1274]. "Treatise on the Sacraments." ''Summa Theologica'')
 +
 +
:[[User:VargasMilan|VargasMilan]] ([[User talk:VargasMilan|talk]]) Wednesday, 18:12, 26 August 2020 (EDT)
  
 
==References==
 
==References==

Revision as of 22:12, August 26, 2020

This is a non-denominational exchange of ideas intended to bring about a greater understanding of the Bible.
All views are welcome.


Texts

  • Mark 1:8 - I [John the Baptist] indeed have baptized you with water: but he [Jesus] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
  • Acts 19:2-3 - And he [Paul] said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.”

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that the Holy Spirit is received at water baptism.[1]

Rules

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Protagonists

Antagonists

Roman Catholic doctrine does not distinguish between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism, between John's baptism and Jesus' baptism.

Answer: Let's stipulate the Holy Spirit is called living water:
The promise of living water
He was speaking of the Spirit which those who believed in him were to receive; for there was no Spirit as yet because Jesus had not yet been glorified.—John 7:39
and that Christ instituted the living water baptism:
The coming of the Advocate
Still, I must tell you the truth:
it is for your own good that I am going
because unless I go,
the Advocate will not come to you;
but if I do go,
I will send Him to you.—John 16:7
First, does water baptism confer grace?
[The coming of faith]
All baptized in Christ, you have all clothed yourselves in Christ,...—Galatians 3:27
This must be water baptism (Christ's name), but this verse shows this sacrament confers grace.
After being sent by Christ, the Holy Spirit now pours the virtue of the love of God in our hearts:
[Faith guarantees salvation]
And this hope is not deceptive, because the love of God has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit which has been given us.—Romans 5:5
In fact, the Holy Spirit is the mutual Love between God and Christ's believers. This verse confirms the possibility:
[A call to Christian living, and its reward]
In making these gifts, he has given us the guarantee of something very great and wonderful to come: through them you will be able to share the divine nature and to escape corruption in a world that is sunk in vice.—2nd Peter 1:4
Let's go back to the first verse:
The promise of living water
He was speaking of the Spirit which those who believed in him were to receive; for there was no Spirit as yet because Jesus had not yet been glorified.—John 7:39
A second example of receiving the Holy Spirit God's self.
Let's go back three verses:
[Faith guarantees salvation]
And this hope is not deceptive, because the love of God has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit which has been given us.—Romans 5:5
Now grace is something always given by Love, the Love through which all free gifts are given. We know the Holy Spirit is spiritually in the free gift of Love and consequently in all the free gifts he gives. And while the Holy Spirit's most characteristic free gift of God's self is sanctifying grace, it also applies to special graces like that pertaining to water baptism, in this case,
ordered to a certain spiritual regeneration by which man dies to vice and becomes a member of Christ....—(Thomas Aquinas [1274]. "Treatise on the Sacraments." Summa Theologica)
VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 18:12, 26 August 2020 (EDT)

References

See also