Talk:Middle-income countries

All this is measured in Petrodollars. 14:54, April 13, 2024 (EDT)

Grammar

How awkward and redundant is this: "According to Investopedia, "According to the World Bank...."?

What would we call this, a double appeal to authority?

According to Conservapedia, "An appeal to authority is an informal logical fallacy." Is this a double logical fallacy? RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 16:52, April 13, 2024 (EDT)

The Time magazine article does not say the term "Middle-income countries" is a class warfare term

The Time magazine article does not say the term "Middle-income countries" is a class warfare term.

If you want to show it is a class warfare term, then you will need a citation and not merely claim it is. Conservative (talk) 21:49, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Where in the article does it say what you claim it says? Conservative (talk) 21:53, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

"Workers around the world are burdened by stagnant incomes." RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 21:54, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

There are American workers in an upper-income country who have stagnant incomes. There are low-income countries with stagnant incomes. This does not refer to middle-income countries. The Time magazine article does not use the term middle-income countries. Conservative (talk) 21:57, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

"middle income" is a Marxist class warfare term. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 22:00, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

If you truly want to claim something true about the term, then why aren't you using an article which uses the term "middle-income countries". Conservative (talk) 22:00, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Where is your evidence that "middle-income" is a Marxist or Marxist economists term and that is not widely used by other economists as well? For example, both Marxists and non-Marxists use the term "labor". Conservative (talk) 22:03, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Google "Marx class theory" and take your pick. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 22:07, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

That is a non answer. And you are not demonstrating your contention. Conservative (talk) 22:09, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

(ec) "middle income", "upper income", and "lower income" stand in direct opposition to the notions of "equality" and "individualism" as articulated in the pre-Marx French and American Revolutions. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 22:12, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

"In Marxist theory, class theory is at the centre of Marx’s social theory." [1] RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 22:16, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Spoiler alert: If you want to get into an argument with me about Marxist class theory, you're gonna lose. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 22:16, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

"Santorum has condemned the term "middle class" as "Marxism talk" used by liberals, maintaining that the United States has no social classes.[221][222]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Santorum#Class/Inequality

Well then say that Rick Santorum's says that in the article in a sentence and make sure it refers to the term "middle-class" and not "middle-income countries". You can do the same for a middle-class article too. Conservative (talk) 22:25, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

You do it. Maybe you can rehabilitate yourself from your liberal and Marxist tendencies. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 22:28, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Donald Trump's chief economic advisor, Larry Kudlow (Former Director of the National Economic Council of the United States) who is not a Marxist, uses the term middle-class in an appearance with Trump at: "This is the blue-collar, middle-class Trump Economy." and Trump appears to have no problems with the term "middle-class". Conservative (talk) 22:33, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

In the speech Trump: Globalization has wiped out middle class, Donald Trump uses the term "middle-class" in a favorable way and does not criticize the term. Trump believes that the middle-class is a good thing. Conservative (talk) 22:39, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

yah yah yah everybody knows. That doesn't mean it's a conservative term. It's still Marxist terminology.

Your alleged scholarly research is just more evidence of the Long march through the institutions, and your insistence on using it in Conservapedia is evidence of O'Sullivan's First Law. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 22:46, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

You haven't shown me that "middle-class" is a Marxist term. And I just showed you the non-Marxist Donald Trump and his economic advisor using the term. Is Donald Trump a Marxist? Conservative (talk) 22:50, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Specifically now to your question about Trump, Kudlow, and others: Marxist class theory and warfare is built into the IRS tax code and sliding scale tax rates. That's why phraseology like "middle class tax cut" are commonplace in DC and American media. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 22:52, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

You're purposefully acting spitefully and unreasonably. I have asked Andy to get involved. I very much doubt he is going to buy your unsupported argument. Conservative (talk) 22:56, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

To paraphrase Caitlain Johnstone, "If you can't see that class rhetoric is Marxist, you're just a stupid _______". RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 23:01, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Caitlin Johnstone is a self-described "Rogue journalist. Bogan socialist. Anarcho-psychonaut. Guerilla poet. Utopia prepper."[2] She also wrote a book on astrology.

Why are you quoting Johnstone? It makes no sense. She is not some authoritative source. Conservative (talk)

You're spamming. She's probably a Marxist, too. She's attending the Trump hush money trial in the courtroom. I'll reserve judgement on anything til I read her reports. But she's right on the point I paraphrased. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 23:46, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Wait a second. I just read the Santorum quote. He is talking about "social classes" and not income classes. So you don't even have the Santorum claim right. Conservative (talk) 23:04, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Oh duh. Social class is not determined by income. That's a novel concept. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 23:09, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Oxford Languages defines the term social class as "a division of a society based on social and economic status."

In short, it is not merely an economic term. Conservative (talk) 23:18, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

I changed it from "class warfare" to "class theory", which ultimately is the same thing.

Modern day economists inventing the term "middle income countries" just illustrates how the Marxist long march through the institutions of academia and the field of economics has paid off. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 23:26, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

"Middle income" is a class, there is no denying that. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 23:30, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

I am not going to argue with someone who is purposefully acting spiteful and unreasonable. Conservative (talk) 23:39, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Ever since you made yourself an overnight sensation on global politics and economics, it seems all you've stuffed your head with is Marxist, fascist, and globalist reading material. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 23:46, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Rick Santorum at CPAC: [3]

"WE WENT OUT AND TALKED ABOUT FOCUSING ON THOSE WHO ARE WORKING AMERICANS. NOTICE I DIDN'T SAY "MIDDLE-CLASS." I DON'T KNOW WHY WE DO THIS, FELLOW CONSERVATIVES AND REPUBLICANS. WHY DO WE BELIEVE -- WHY DO WE USE THE TERM COME I SHOULD SAY, THAT IS OF THE OTHER SIDE? WHY DO WE AS REPUBLICANS WHO BELIEVE IN THE DIGNITY OF EVERY HUMAN LIFE, WHO BELIEVE IN EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY, FOR EVERYONE TO RISE, ADOPT A CLASS-ENVY LEFTIST LANGUAGE THAT DIVIDES AMERICANS AGAINST THEMSELVES? [APPLAUSE] CLASSES IN AMERICA? YOU REAL -- DO WE REALLY ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT THERE ARE CLASSES IN AMERICA? WHY DO WE USE THAT LANGUAGE? WE HAVE TO STOP THAT, WE HAVE TO STOP ACTING LIKE THEM AND SOMEHOW FEEL WE SHOULD REACH OUT TO -- WE CAN REACH OUT TO FOLKS. WE SHOULD USE THE TERM "WORKING AMERICANS," BECAUSE UNLIKE THEM WE THINK THAT WORK IS A GOOD THING. [APPLAUSE] THEY USE THE CLASS RHETORIC BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL ABOUT DIVIDING ONE CLASS FROM ANOTHER, ONE ETHNIC GROUP AGAINST ANOTHER, ONE GROUP OF AMERICANS -- THAT IS WHAT THEY DO, THEY DIVIDE. LET THEM DIVIDE. LET US UNIFY.

RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 00:03, May 11, 2024 (EDT)

Next you need to get to work on income inequality between countries. Maybe Bernie Sanders can help. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 00:14, May 11, 2024 (EDT)

The term middle class cannot be said to be solely a Marxist term and it did not originate within Marxism. Also, modern readers assume people mean the modern meanings of words/terms when they are used

The article is about middle-income countries and not the middle-class. So the point is moot. Discussions of the term middle-class belong in the middle-class article. Furthermore, when a modern writer is using a word/term, it is assumed by readers that the modern usage of the word/term is meant unless specified otherwise. Not the 1800s Marxist meaning of a word/term. Hence, when Donald Trump is using the term "middle-class" people assume he means the modern usage of the term.

However, setting aside that the article is about middle-income countries and not about the term middle-class here is my research below:

First uses of the term middle class was pre-Marxist

"The earliest known use of the word middle class is in the mid 1600s. OED's earliest evidence for middle class is from 1654, in the writing of W. Carlos." [4]

The term "middle class" is also attested in James Bradshaw's 1745 pamphlet Scheme to prevent running Irish Wools to France.[5]

The concept middle class was used in early modern Europe as in "the middling sort" (Hunt, Margaret R. (1996). The Middling Sort : Commerce, Gender, and the Family in England, 1680–1780. University California Press. ISBN 0-520-20260-0. To be one of "the middling sort" in urban England in the late seventeenth or eighteenth century was to live a life tied, one way or another, to the world of commerce.)

Modern usage of the term middle class

The modern usage of the term "middle-class", however, dates to the 1913 UK Registrar-General's report, in which the statistician T. H. C. Stevenson identified the middle class as those falling between the upper-class and the working-class ( "Social Research Update 9: Official Social Classifications in the UK". sru.soc.surrey.ac.uk. ).

The capitalist Donald Trump using the term middle class. His chief economic advisor also used the term middle class

Donald Trump's chief economic advisor, Larry Kudlow (Former Director of the National Economic Council of the United States) who is not a Marxist, uses the term middle-class in an appearance with Trump at: "This is the blue-collar, middle-class Trump Economy." and Trump appears to have no problems with the term "middle-class". Conservative (talk) 22:33, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

In the speech Trump: Globalization has wiped out middle class, Donald Trump uses the term "middle-class" in a favorable way and does not criticize the term. Trump believes that the middle-class is a good thing. Conservative (talk) 03:06, May 11, 2024 (EDT)

Look, all that AI you use is crap garnered from Wikipedia. What the hell is the matter with you? RobS^{Zelensky Must Go!} 00:26, April 1, 2025 (EDT)

No High-income country article

User:Conservative: You never created a High-income country article. Given the internal links in this page, I guess that proves it was not created for educational purposes. RobS^{The Truth. Just Putin It Out There} 17:52, July 2, 2024 (EDT)

WTH?

"The “middle-income trap” is a theory of economic development in which wages in a country rise to the point that growth potential in export-driven low-skill manufacturing is exhausted before it attains the innovative capability needed to boost productivity and compete with developed countries in higher value-chain industries. Thus, there are few avenues for further growth — and wages stagnate."

(A) Anybody wanna translate this gibberish for me?

(B) What's the difference between taking this theory and presenting it as fact in this article (and the dozen or so other articles this section was spammed into), and presenting the Theory of Evolution as fact anywhere?

Let's take this phrase, for example: "innovative capability needed to boost productivity". Presumably, this refers to overall, or collective macroeconomic "productivity", and not the merit-based "innovative capability" of an individual wage earner. Is that correct?

No answer. I win. Ole Ole Ole

You sure got your butt beat again on this one.

In the last 3 decades the only countries to get out of the middle-income trap and sustain it (not go back and forth between being a high-income and middle-income country) were Estonia, Bulgaria, Poland and South Korea. Estonia, Bulgaria and Poland did it via economic reforms that unleashed the power of capitalism which helped raise their labor productivity and rewarded innovation. South Korea improved their economic competitiveness (domestic industry did not have a lot of protectionism so the companies were forced to get better) and did well in the export game plus South Korea improved their infrastructure. Aging populations, debt and protectionism (tariffs, etc.) are going to make it harder for countries to break out of the middle-income trap.

In the USA, people's income tends to stagnate/plateau between the ages of 45-54 largely because they become complacent and do not upgrade their skills and knowledge via lifelong learning.[6] Maybe (And it is just a theory of mine) countries get complacent so they never break out of the middle-income trap. For example, they don't continually improve their governments, educational systems and private sector. In sports, the star athletes with the champion mindsets continually try to get better and better. Conservative (talk) 00:34, April 2, 2025 (EDT)

Marxist theory doesn't interest me in the least. Those two paragraphs above that you wrote (or more likely plagiarized from somewhere) are what is commonly called Marxist gobbledygook. RobS^{Zelensky Must Go!} 00:52, April 2, 2025 (EDT)

Let's look at this crap you plagiarized from somewhere:

"domestic industry did not have a lot of protectionism so the companies were forced to get better

Do you realize that is totally opposite of Trumpism and the MAGAnomic agenda? Protectionist tariffs (the most beautiful word in the dictionary) are suppose "make the companies get better" cause "not having a lot of protectionism" destroyed American industry.

Sheesh. You are just a troll, and a bad one at that. At least Ace & Conway were entertaining, you get more stupid and obnoxious as time goes by. RobS^{Zelensky Must Go!} 01:07, April 2, 2025 (EDT)