Difference between revisions of "Talk:Middle-income countries"

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The term "middle class" is also attested in James Bradshaw's 1745 pamphlet Scheme to prevent running Irish Wools to France.[https://books.google.com/books?id=AJdbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q&f=false]
 
The term "middle class" is also attested in James Bradshaw's 1745 pamphlet Scheme to prevent running Irish Wools to France.[https://books.google.com/books?id=AJdbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q&f=false]
  
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The concept middle class was used in early modern Europe as in "the middling sort" (Hunt, Margaret R. (1996). The Middling Sort : Commerce, Gender, and the Family in England, 1680–1780. University California Press. ISBN 0-520-20260-0. To be one of "the middling sort" in urban England in the late seventeenth or eighteenth century was to live a life tied, one way or another, to the world of commerce.)
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The concept middle class was used in early modern Europe as in "the middling sort" (Hunt, Margaret R. (1996). The Middling Sort : Commerce, Gender, and the Family in England, 1680–1780. University California Press. ISBN 0-520-20260-0. To be one of "the middling sort" in urban England in the late seventeenth or eighteenth century was to live a life tied, one way or another, to the world of commerce.) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 03:06, May 11, 2024 (EDT)
  
 
== Modern usage of the term "middle-class ==
 
== Modern usage of the term "middle-class ==

Revision as of 07:06, May 11, 2024

All this is measured in Petrodollars. 14:54, April 13, 2024 (EDT)

Grammar

How awkward and redundant is this: "According to Investopedia, "According to the World Bank...."?

What would we call this, a double appeal to authority?

According to Conservapedia, "An appeal to authority is an informal logical fallacy." Is this a double logical fallacy? RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 16:52, April 13, 2024 (EDT)

The Time magazine article does not say the term "Middle-income countries" is a class warfare term

The Time magazine article does not say the term "Middle-income countries" is a class warfare term.

If you want to show it is a class warfare term, then you will need a citation and not merely claim it is. Conservative (talk) 21:49, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Where in the article does it say what you claim it says? Conservative (talk) 21:53, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
"Workers around the world are burdened by stagnant incomes." RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 21:54, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
There are American workers in an upper-income country who have stagnant incomes. There are low-income countries with stagnant incomes. This does not refer to middle-income countries. The Time magazine article does not use the term middle-income countries. Conservative (talk) 21:57, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
"middle income" is a Marxist class warfare term. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 22:00, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
If you truly want to claim something true about the term, then why aren't you using an article which uses the term "middle-income countries". Conservative (talk) 22:00, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Where is your evidence that "middle-income" is a Marxist or Marxist economists term and that is not widely used by other economists as well? For example, both Marxists and non-Marxists use the term "labor". Conservative (talk) 22:03, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Google "Marx class theory" and take your pick. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 22:07, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
That is a non answer. And you are not demonstrating your contention. Conservative (talk) 22:09, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
(ec) "middle income", "upper income", and "lower income" stand in direct opposition to the notions of "equality" and "individualism" as articulated in the pre-Marx French and American Revolutions. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 22:12, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
"In Marxist theory, class theory is at the centre of Marx’s social theory." [1] RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 22:16, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Spoiler alert: If you want to get into an argument with me about Marxist class theory, you're gonna lose. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 22:16, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

"Santorum has condemned the term "middle class" as "Marxism talk" used by liberals, maintaining that the United States has no social classes.[221][222]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Santorum#Class/Inequality
Well then say that Rick Santorum's says that in the article in a sentence and make sure it refers to the term "middle-class" and not "middle-income countries". You can do the same for a middle-class article too. Conservative (talk) 22:25, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
You do it. Maybe you can rehabilitate yourself from your liberal and Marxist tendencies. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 22:28, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
Donald Trump's chief economic advisor, Larry Kudlow (Former Director of the National Economic Council of the United States) who is not a Marxist, uses the term middle-class in an appearance with Trump at: "This is the blue-collar, middle-class Trump Economy." and Trump appears to have no problems with the term "middle-class". Conservative (talk) 22:33, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
In the speech Trump: Globalization has wiped out middle class, Donald Trump uses the term "middle-class" in a favorable way and does not criticize the term. Trump believes that the middle-class is a good thing. Conservative (talk) 22:39, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
yah yah yah everybody knows. That doesn't mean it's a conservative term. It's still Marxist terminology.
Your alleged scholarly research is just more evidence of the Long march through the institutions, and your insistence on using it in Conservapedia is evidence of O'Sullivan's First Law. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 22:46, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

You haven't shown me that "middle-class" is a Marxist term. And I just showed you the non-Marxist Donald Trump and his economic advisor using the term. Is Donald Trump a Marxist? Conservative (talk) 22:50, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Specifically now to your question about Trump, Kudlow, and others: Marxist class theory and warfare is built into the IRS tax code and sliding scale tax rates. That's why phraseology like "middle class tax cut" are commonplace in DC and American media. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 22:52, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
You're purposefully acting spitefully and unreasonably. I have asked Andy to get involved. I very much doubt he is going to buy your unsupported argument. Conservative (talk) 22:56, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
To paraphrase Caitlain Johnstone, "If you can't see that class rhetoric is Marxist, you're just a stupid _______". RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 23:01, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
Caitlin Johnstone is a self-described "Rogue journalist. Bogan socialist. Anarcho-psychonaut. Guerilla poet. Utopia prepper."[2] She also wrote a book on astrology.
Why are you quoting Johnstone? It makes no sense. She is not some authoritative source. Conservative (talk)
You're spamming. She's probably a Marxist, too. She's attending the Trump hush money trial in the courtroom. I'll reserve judgement on anything til I read her reports. But she's right on the point I paraphrased. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 23:46, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Wait a second. I just read the Santorum quote. He is talking about "social classes" and not income classes. So you don't even have the Santorum claim right. Conservative (talk) 23:04, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

Oh duh. Social class is not determined by income. That's a novel concept. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 23:09, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
Oxford Languages defines the term social class as "a division of a society based on social and economic status."
In short, it is not merely an economic term. Conservative (talk) 23:18, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
I changed it from "class warfare" to "class theory", which ultimately is the same thing.
Modern day economists inventing the term "middle income countries" just illustrates how the Marxist long march through the institutions of academia and the field of economics has paid off. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 23:26, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
"Middle income" is a class, there is no denying that. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 23:30, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
I am not going to argue with someone who is purposefully acting spiteful and unreasonable. Conservative (talk) 23:39, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
Ever since you made yourself an overnight sensation on global politics and economics, it seems all you've stuffed your head with is Marxist, fascist, and globalist reading material. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 23:46, May 10, 2024 (EDT)
Rick Santorum at CPAC: [3]
"WE WENT OUT AND TALKED ABOUT FOCUSING ON THOSE WHO ARE WORKING AMERICANS. NOTICE I DIDN'T SAY "MIDDLE-CLASS." I DON'T KNOW WHY WE DO THIS, FELLOW CONSERVATIVES AND REPUBLICANS. WHY DO WE BELIEVE -- WHY DO WE USE THE TERM COME I SHOULD SAY, THAT IS OF THE OTHER SIDE? WHY DO WE AS REPUBLICANS WHO BELIEVE IN THE DIGNITY OF EVERY HUMAN LIFE, WHO BELIEVE IN EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY, FOR EVERYONE TO RISE, ADOPT A CLASS-ENVY LEFTIST LANGUAGE THAT DIVIDES AMERICANS AGAINST THEMSELVES? [APPLAUSE] CLASSES IN AMERICA? YOU REAL -- DO WE REALLY ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT THERE ARE CLASSES IN AMERICA? WHY DO WE USE THAT LANGUAGE? WE HAVE TO STOP THAT, WE HAVE TO STOP ACTING LIKE THEM AND SOMEHOW FEEL WE SHOULD REACH OUT TO -- WE CAN REACH OUT TO FOLKS. WE SHOULD USE THE TERM "WORKING AMERICANS," BECAUSE UNLIKE THEM WE THINK THAT WORK IS A GOOD THING. [APPLAUSE] THEY USE THE CLASS RHETORIC BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL ABOUT DIVIDING ONE CLASS FROM ANOTHER, ONE ETHNIC GROUP AGAINST ANOTHER, ONE GROUP OF AMERICANS -- THAT IS WHAT THEY DO, THEY DIVIDE. LET THEM DIVIDE. LET US UNIFY.
RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 00:03, May 11, 2024 (EDT)
Next you need to get to work on income inequality between countries. Maybe Bernie Sanders can help. RobSThe Truth. Just Putin It Out There 00:14, May 11, 2024 (EDT)

First uses of the term middle class was pre-Marxist

"The earliest known use of the word middle class is in the mid 1600s. OED's earliest evidence for middle class is from 1654, in the writing of W. Carlos." [4]

The term "middle class" is also attested in James Bradshaw's 1745 pamphlet Scheme to prevent running Irish Wools to France.[5]

The concept middle class was used in early modern Europe as in "the middling sort" (Hunt, Margaret R. (1996). The Middling Sort : Commerce, Gender, and the Family in England, 1680–1780. University California Press. ISBN 0-520-20260-0. To be one of "the middling sort" in urban England in the late seventeenth or eighteenth century was to live a life tied, one way or another, to the world of commerce.) Conservative (talk) 03:06, May 11, 2024 (EDT)

Modern usage of the term "middle-class

The modern usage of the term "middle-class", however, dates to the 1913 UK Registrar-General's report, in which the statistician T. H. C. Stevenson identified the middle class as those falling between the upper-class and the working-class ( "Social Research Update 9: Official Social Classifications in the UK". sru.soc.surrey.ac.uk. ).

The capitalist Donald Trump using the term middle class. His chief economic advisor also using term middle class

Donald Trump's chief economic advisor, Larry Kudlow (Former Director of the National Economic Council of the United States) who is not a Marxist, uses the term middle-class in an appearance with Trump at: "This is the blue-collar, middle-class Trump Economy." and Trump appears to have no problems with the term "middle-class". Conservative (talk) 22:33, May 10, 2024 (EDT)

In the speech Trump: Globalization has wiped out middle class, Donald Trump uses the term "middle-class" in a favorable way and does not criticize the term. Trump believes that the middle-class is a good thing. Conservative (talk) 03:06, May 11, 2024 (EDT)

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