Talk:Obamagate timeline

On March 7, I have already started CP's presentation of Trump's allegations of wiretapping in the Barack Obama Controversies and Barack Hussein Obama articles. I do not object to a separate timeline, provided that we also have good prose coverage there. I believe that timelines fail to provide full context, and sometime editors can quibble in attaching dates to various events. Thanks, JDano (talk) 06:16, 9 March 2017 (EST)

I'm anticipating this will be drawn out for months - with future revelations to come and gaps to be filled in. As more is uncovered, this timeline is intended to be a guidepost for giving context to other articles where a prose narrative will explore in depth.

My biggest fear and concern at this point is to keep the fake news story "Russiagate" off this page entirely (hopefully) as it can be assumed a merging or confusing of the two by msm is their best strategy to neutralize the devastating impact this story will have once its full dimensions are known. RobS^{CIA vs Trump. Who's gonna win?} 10:19, 9 March 2017 (EST)

I agree that formulations like "Russiagate" (or even the -gate suffix to invite comparisons to Nixon) are not helpful. However, I suspect that antecedent events were cited to justify the warrant, and those should probably belong in the timeline. Also, there are two possibilities here: either the federal bureaucracy is doing this without Obama, or Obama personally directed it. I have not seen any evidence of his personal involvement (which is what Trump tweeted.)JDano (talk) 10:58, 9 March 2017 (EST)

It's only in the rudimentary stages, what, four, five days? We're just laying out the broad context. This is much bigger, deeper, and far reaching than any allegations against Trump so far. And likely to have an impact on future legislation. This is an abuse of power scandal. It is already having an economic impact on Microsoft, Google, Samsung, Apple and others. RobS^{CIA vs Trump. Who's gonna win?} 11:09, 9 March 2017 (EST)

Let me add, in just the past 24 hours I've read 2 print and heard 1 radio broadcast of gross distortions of fact in reporting on this breaking story ("the taping of phones of President Obama..." made it sound like Trump ordered wiretaps on Obama; another claimed websevers in the White House connected to two Russian banks, rather than in Trump Tower to obtain the warrant) I can only presume to be deliberate to mislead people. I want to get a handle on facts quickly. RobS^{CIA vs Trump. Who's gonna win?} 11:55, 9 March 2017 (EST)

You know that I am an admirer of your work. I just wanted you to know I had already started some coverage a few days ago in other articles, and I agree we need to be careful keeping our facts straight on who, what, when, where and why. JDano (talk) 13:52, 9 March 2017 (EST)

Yes, definitely. As a rule, I'll try to insert sourcing for every line item. I just found out when there are more than 200 internal & outgoing links, search engines may discriminate thinking its spam. RobS^{CIA vs Trump. Who's gonna win?} 21:09, 9 March 2017 (EST)

IRS scandal

The IRS scandal is almost a textbook example of corruption in modern Washington, and how it is handled and covered up. How through various Congressional investigations which change hands by party; how deniability through four changes of Commissioner; how a designated fall guy is paid off; how either both party's are guilty of abuses, or one party needs to shield it ineptitude, impotence, and weakness from the public because of its lack of control or influence within the bureaucracy; the footdragging of investigators, prosecutors, and even the Independent Inspector Generals to buy time for cover up; most importantly, the timing of events within the unknown variable of a two year election cycle. That aspect can be easily seen from the start and end dates of various investigations.

Much of the IRS scandal was replicated in the Clinton email scandal. For example, the "lost" emails and how its sold to the public & media, whereas everyone knows the NSA has copies of the emails in its metadata collection. What's revealing here is the difficulty of Congressional investigators accessing it. Snowden and Ellsberg are evidently correct: the NSA has the ability to spy on and blackmail Senators, Supreme Court Justices, and candidates for President of the opposing party and their aides, and then sometimes share that information with a sitting president.

Where Obamagate goes from here is fairly obvious: the challenge to President Trump and Republican Congressional investigators is not necessarily to expose institutional corruption in the bureaucracy, but rather to gain control of it. It's unlikely it can be completed in a two-year cycle. What Obama did was indeed treasonous, using institutions and methods designed to fight foreign enemies like the KGB, al Qaeda, and drug cartels, to fight a domestic "enemy", Donald Trump and Republicans. This indeed needs to be exposed and eternally attached to his legacy, and his reputation ground to powder. RobS^{CIA vs Trump. Who's gonna win?} 11:03, 10 March 2017 (EST)

Grassley/Feinstein meeting with Comey

It's almost comical to read libs reviews of the Grassley/Feinstein-Comey meeting. The truth is, this was a briefing in reverse. Comey needed advice how to handle questions on a FISA warrant for Flynn without perjuring himself in testimony before the House, which he doesn't ordinarily do. For this he turned to senior members of the Senate, respected in both parties, whom he'd worked well with over the years and there is a trusting bond. If any members of the House panel are dissatisfied with his testimony, they can turn to Grassley or Feinstein for a private briefing on the FISA law and need for secrecy. Hence, a bipartisan cover narrative is emerging, and secrecy around FISA preserved and intact. RobS^{CIA v Trump updated score:CIA 3, Trump 2} 17:22, 21 March 2017 (EDT)

Ben Rhodes and David Ignatius

Anybody have any information? RobS^{CIA v Trump updated score:CIA 3, Trump 2} 18:29, 25 March 2017 (EDT)

"Supreme Court Justice Anton Scalia found dead in Texas"

Are people actually claiming that Obama had Scalia assassinated? Whiterose (talk) 20:26, 22 April 2017 (EDT)

I dunno. CNN and the Washington Post were the first to raise questions. RobS^{The coup plotters are going down} 20:46, 22 April 2017 (EDT)

There is another project happening

Rob,

We are doing another project. The project Conservative vs. liberal is off to a good start.

Could you please create an article on Bleeding-heart liberal. It is a very popular term. If you look at the articles HERE that should give you some good ideas. Ideally, we want our article to be just as good as those or better.

I sent this message to another Conservapedian a few moments ago so you could have a collaborator. Conservative (talk) 01:08, 4 June 2017 (EDT)

Ok. Just got some breaking news on death threats against attns. in the DNC fraud suit and mysterious calls traced to Debbie Wasserman Schultz office. The lawyers are in fear for their lives and are asking for prayers. Trying to get caught up on it. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 01:43, 4 June 2017 (EDT)

Family friendly

The Steele Dossier entries need to be made more family friendly. There are words in this article that are more graphic than were used in any network TV newscast (or even on Late Night with Stephen Colbert). Could we find a less explicit way to discuss this please? Thanks, JDano (talk) 09:09, 24 June 2017 (EDT)

Process

These timelines examine several scandals, and a rudimentary understanding of process within a bureaucratic organization can be helpful. The impression is often created that a scandal investigation, or what the public knows of it, are guided by day-to-day leaks and public pressure. A large bureaucracy, such as the DOJ or Pentagon, are guided by a commitment to preserve institutional stability. For this they have a multitude of contingency plans to deal with emergencies or scandals. Like a business, they set forth quarterly guidelines for the institution with policy prescriptions that change every 90 days on how to deal with anticipated goals, events, and objectives they reasonablely consider the institution may encounter. I'll set forth three illustrations below, but there are many more that become apparent when reviewing these eight-plus years of Obamunism and its hangover.

The first quarter of this year were marked by institutional objectives for transition, (1) Jan 1 - Mar 31 Obama leaving office and Trump taking over; (2) Apr 1 - Jun 30 Trump filling appointments and staff positions. By July 1, Trump is supposed to have enough of his people in place to begin writing the institutional objectives for coming quarters. This, technically speaking, would be when Trump has taken full charge of the government and the Trump administration begins.

This institutional objective is illustrative in the resignation of Robert Gates, for example, who became increasingly disillusioned and alarmed at the course of Obama policy in arming ISIS, but didn't wish to create panic and alarm, or the appearance of scandal, but announced his resignation in August of 2011 which did not become effective until midyear, June 30, 2012, in the interests of preserving institutional stability, a smooth transition, while washing his hands of the corrupt Obama administration.

Or the example of Loretta Lynch, who was compromised, or deliberately compromised herself, two days before the quarterly objective of completing the Hillary Clinton email scandal investigation was slated to be concluded, June 28 2016. The Justice Department has contingencies for when an Attorney General recuses themselves -- Rod Rosenstein or Dana Boente should have stepped before the camaras -- but Comey did. According to Comey's firing letter written by Rosenstein, Comey took it on himself to do this. According to Comey's sworn testimony, he was instructed by Lynch to do it. The stench of this continuing coverup within the DOJ ought to have reached Almighty God's nostrils by now, one would think.

Good source

• http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/21/jeh-johnson-dems-declined-help-from-department-of-/

DNC refused DHS help after hacking. The Dems and Obama are more at fault than Trump (if at all, for the latter). --1990'sguy (talk) 15:17, 30 June 2017 (EDT)

Last I heard Trey Howdy was going to subpeana the hard drives, but I lack good sourcing on that. One problem that is sometimes overlooked is, Congressional Committees only have authority over US government agencies and departments, or contractors doing business with the US government. So there has to be some money link between the DNC & the federal govt. for a Committee to be able to investigate. There probably is somewhere, but I can't imagine where it would be. And you are right, Trump and the Trump organization have absolutely connection whatsoever with the DNC servers.

Crowd strike is a NATO contractor, that's why the FBI took their alleged expertise as gospel.

Another problem lingers with FusionGPS. They have defied a Senate Judiciary inquiry from Chuck Grassley as to who hired them to write the Steele dossier. FusionGPS cites cites attorney-client privilege, which reeks of Clintonism. So the administration may have to get a special prosecutor (the FBI has been compromised in this investigation) or the Federal Election Commission and whatever else on this case. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 02:47, 1 July 2017 (EDT)

Trump Jr

• 8 May. Eric and Donald Trump Jr. summoned to FBI headquarters for emergency meeting with Dir. Comey, bureau cybersecurity agents and CIA representatives.

• 9 May. Comey fired.

• 11 May Mueller appointed; Comey alleges in leak his firing was Trump's effort to obstruct Justice.

• 8 June. Trump Jr. sends out 80 tweets during hearings critical of Comey.

So what is going on here? Three theories but I will only articulate one, the most plausible. Comey threatened Trump Jr with prosecution and offered a plea deal based on the supposed evidence of his email and meeting with a Russian lawyer and FudionGPS operative. Comey wanted Trump Jr to name names of other higher ups. This was Comey effort to blackmail Trump Sr, in much the same vein J Edgar's Hoover was famous for during Hoover's tenure under 8 presidents. Comey was fired the next day. Trump Jr remains very bitter about the experience and fired up a tweet storm during Comey's testimony.