Talk:Debate: Is there a Purgatory before Judgment Day

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Purgatory is the doctrine of Anti-Christ. It denies that the sacrificial death and resurrection of Christ is sufficient for salvation. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 11:31, 8 July 2020 (EDT)

According to here, it seems that the concept of Purgatory could very well be valid. Besides, for good Christians who may have had several unrepented sins before dying and entering the Day of Judgment, how could they go to Heaven without being fully cleansed? What about those who have more flaws though still repent and try to live by strong Christian principles? If Purgatory isn't real, then where is the dividing line between whether people go to Heaven or Hell over sins unrepented before death? —LiberaltearsMay Dataclarifier be well! 14:33, 8 July 2020 (EDT)
Oh, so the sacrificial atonement of Christ is insufficient. Your blood is upon your own head. Okay. I understand clearly where you are coming from. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 14:56, 8 July 2020 (EDT)
  • by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
I don't see any exceptions in there. If he hath perfected them forever, why am I, or anybody, held accountable? Secondly, No man cometh to the Father but by me. But I can ignore Christ's sacrificial offering, and pay for my own salvation anyway myself, right? RobSTrump 2Q2Q 15:04, 8 July 2020 (EDT)

Right, Liberal Tears. The Catholic Answers site produces many proofs of Purgatory.

Yah yah yah, we all get it Catholic doctrine overrules the Word of God. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 06:08, 9 July 2020 (EDT)

Rob Smith, what is your answer to 1 Cor 3:13-15. It clearly speaks of some being saved only through fire. That is Purgatory. Every one who is perfected is perfected through the Cross. That remains true. The Bible also speaks of "the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb 12:23) which is another reference to how the departed just are slowly made perfect. Read 1 Pet 3 and 4 and Mat 5 and you'll see the Lord and His Apostles speak of a Prison of Spirits. The Cross purifies them when they are there and they are rightly released at the proper time. Our Lord also spoke of those who receive lesser stripes. That is another reference to Purgatory. Then St. Paul prays for his departed friend. I'll add those references as Fourth and Fifth proofs. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 21:58, 8 July 2020 (EDT)

I think you have to do way better than this to refute the Doctrine of Christ. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 05:41, 9 July 2020 (EDT)
Purgatory reminds me of Israel in the wilderness: after they were eyewitnesses to God's mighty power in Egypt, after they saw God destroy their enemies when he parted the sea, after He fed them in the wilderness (I'll withhold the sermon on the bread of life for now), after they heard the gospel preached (Heb 4:2), they still rejected the Good News (he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified) and bowed down to worship the golden calf. Wherefore, I was grieved with that generation....' RobSTrump 2Q2Q 05:54, 9 July 2020 (EDT)
Let's discuss sanctification for a moment (if you wanted to pick apart my argument on the other page, you think you would have keyed on the word sanctify). To be sanctified means to be set apart. Israel was set apart from Egypt. Here's your opportunity to tear into the doctrine of "once saved, always saved", but evidently lack the spiritual capacity. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 06:05, 9 July 2020 (EDT)
Open your eyes! Purgatory denies the Gospel of the saving grace of Jesus Christ! RobSTrump 2Q2Q 07:16, 9 July 2020 (EDT)

Nobody's trying to refute the Doctrine of Christ, except one Mr. Rob Smith. I'm inviting you to accept the Full Gospel of Jesus Christ Our Lord, including that Prison of Spirits He and His Apostle St. Peter speak of. Answer my question (1) Does 1 Cor 3:13-15 distinguish two types of Christians or not? Yes or no? (2) If Yes, and of course it is yes, what happens to the good Christians on Judgment Day? Do they receive a reward for their good works that survive the fire or not? Yes or no (3) What happens to the bad Christians? Do they suffer loss? Yes or no (Yes). ARe their works burned up (Yes). Will they be saved? Yes, but only through fire. That's Purgatory. You have no response for it, because you've accepted OSAS false doctrine. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 08:24, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

You have to deal with 5 proofs first. After that, we can come to your objections. Your solitary objection is weak. All sanctification comes from the Cross. That doesn't mean no one has to do anything - otherwise, each and every single person would already be saved, since Jesus Christ died for all, as it is written in 1 Jn 2:2 "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world" 08:25, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

You're putting the cart before the horse again. Explain to me what the Doctrine of Christ is. Do not cite any source outside the Bible. Do not make any reference to Catholicism or Protestantism. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 15:11, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
Doctrine of Christ is indeed a Biblical term, so you shouldn't need any help from outside the Bible. The Doctrine of Christ is self contained within the Bible. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 16:53, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

This is not about Catholicism or Protestantism per se. 1 Cor 3:13-15 is a Biblical Text, not a Church document. It clearly says (1) some receive a reward from the Lord, namely good Christians; (2) others will be saved, but only through fire, namely bad Christians. Your argument is with the Bible. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 08:30, 14 July 2020 (EDT)

The Doctrine of Christ refers to the Doctrine taught by Jesus Christ. Purgatory is part of that, as the Lord's mention of the Prison in Mat 5 mentioned in the article shows. Thus, those who knowingly and deliberately reject Purgatory seem to reject the Doctrine of Christ NishantXavierFor Christ the King 08:31, 14 July 2020 (EDT)

(A) You haven't fully answered the question. (B) There is no purgatory in the Bible. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 00:34, 15 July 2020 (EDT)
Christ has removed our sins as far as the east is from the west. Christ died once for sin. These are essential elements of the Doctrine of Christ. Don't you see how purgatory denies the finished work of Christ? RobSTrump 2Q2Q 15:44, 15 July 2020 (EDT)

Explain 1 Cor 3:13-15. You've been running around in circles to avoid doing this. It's obvious why. It thoroughly proves Purgatory from the Bible. 00:36, 15 July 2020 (EDT)

Christ died once for all'; above you just said Christ died for some. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 00:37, 15 July 2020 (EDT)

No, I didn't. That's called a non sequitur, and is also a strawman. Christ died for all, but all are not saved, are they? You have to receive His Forgiveness in Baptism and Confession, or by repentance from a contrite heart for each of your mortal and venial sins. If any venial sins remain, you will go to Purgatory NishantXavierFor Christ the King 00:41, 15 July 2020 (EDT)

Ok, I'd love to discuss this entire chapter, but I'm a little rushed for time right now. Have to leave in 10 minutes. We can begin at the point I cited a few days ago, hitherto you were not able to bear. I hope you re-read the chapter over night. Keep in mind, the labour being discussed refers to doing God's work, for lack of better terminology let's call it "church building" or "winning souls". At verse 13 it's being more pointedly discussed, and we can get into more of that tomorrow. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 00:49, 15 July 2020 (EDT)
Let me add quickly, God is not going to punish somebody for winning souls. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 00:51, 15 July 2020 (EDT)

Sure, take your time. The Bible says, "the fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and he that winneth souls is wise" (Prov 11:30). So I do agree that winning souls for Christ is very important; but just as we are called to love and serve our neighbor as our self by lovingly caring for their souls, so we are also called to care for our own soul first, for it is written, "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:" (Jam 2:8); part of caring for our own soul involves co-operating with God's Grace to complete the sanctification of our souls so that we can go to Heaven without purgatory. As it is written, "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" (Heb 12:14). As it is also written that without faith it is impossible to please Him, "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Heb 11:6), so also it is said no one will see the Lord without striving for sanctity or holiness. Hence, we must conclude Biblically that both faith and holiness are necessary to see the Lord one day. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 00:57, 15 July 2020 (EDT)

Recall what was mentioned in the article: "1 Cor 3:[13] Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. [14] If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

What could possibly be clearer? The bad Christian is saved only through fire because of his bad works. The good Christian receives a reward from the Lord on that Day because of his good works. This text clearly shows that good works done with faith in Christ are necessary post-justification and contribute to the soul’s sanctification. If performed, they entitle us by God’s Grace to a heavenly reward, because God is so Good. But if neglected, they demand punishment, because God is Holy."

Ok, so you're denying Christ died once for all again. Okay. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 14:43, 15 July 2020 (EDT)

Christ died for all, but all are not saved. It's a shame you don't understand this. To be saved, you must confess yuor sins and receive Holy Communion. This is clear from the teaching of the Lord Jesus Himself, and of His Apostles. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 23:49, 17 July 2020 (EDT)

Nope. You're spouting church doctrine, not scriptural doctrine. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 08:19, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
  • Unless I wash you, you are not clean.
(A) Where does Jesus promise cleaning after his death on the cross?
(B) Where does Jesus cleanse someone in Purgatory if the whole idea is that Jesus did not cleanse them on the cross? RobSTrump 2Q2Q 11:16, 18 July 2020 (EDT)

It is the Blood of Jesus from the Cross that progressively cleanses and sanctifies the souls in Purgatory. Even in this life, God uses trials to cleanse and sanctify us and draw us closer to Him. That's what "taking up your Cross and following Me" is all about. God does the same in Purgatory. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 00:23, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

You may recall the Divine Mercy Chaplet in your years as a Catholic. From that, we have a special prayer for the Souls in Purgatory, which goes thus, and shows how the Blood and Mercy of Jesus covers the Souls in Purgatory from the Justice and Wrath of God: "Eighth Day "Today bring to Me the Souls who are in the prison of Purgatory, and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. Let the torrents of My Blood cool down their scorching flames. All these souls are greatly loved by Me. They are making retribution to My justice. It is in your power to bring them relief. Draw all the indulgences from the treasury of My Church and offer them on their behalf. Oh, if you only knew the torments they suffer, you would continually offer for them the alms of the spirit and pay off their debt to My justice."

Most Merciful Jesus, You Yourself have said that You desire mercy; so I bring into the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart the souls in Purgatory, souls who are very dear to You, and yet, who must make retribution to Your justice. May the streams of Blood and Water which gushed forth from Your Heart put out the flames of Purgatory, that there, too, the power of Your mercy may be celebrated.

Eternal Father, turn Your merciful gaze upon the souls suffering in Purgatory, who are enfolded in the Most Compassionate Heart of Jesus. I beg You, by the sorrowful Passion of Jesus Your Son, and by all the bitterness with which His most sacred Soul was flooded: Manifest Your mercy to the souls who are under Your just scrutiny. Look upon them in no other way but only through the Wounds of Jesus, Your dearly beloved Son; for we firmly believe that there is no limit to Your goodness and compassion. Amen." https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/devotions/divine-mercy-novena-eighth-day-13374 NishantXavierFor Christ the King 00:31, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

  • "It is the Blood of Jesus from the Cross that progressively cleanses..."
Thanks for setting me straight on that. I had no idea Jesus was a liar when he said, It is finished (John 19:30). RobSTrump 2Q2Q 11:00, 19 July 2020 (EDT)
Or this verse:
  • when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down (Hebrews 1:3).
Thank you. I had no idea the Bible was so full lies until you opened my eyes. Great work! Very edifying! RobSTrump 2Q2Q 11:06, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

The Holy Bible is the Absolutely Inerrant and Completely Inspired Word of God. That includes all 73 Books of the Bible, including the Book of Maccabees Prots do not accept. In Maccabees, it is clearly taught prayers for the faithful departed are good and holy, that they may be loosed from sins. Are you aware many Protestant commentators themselves acknowledge 2 Tim 1:16 is a prayer for the faithful departed? Prayers for the faithful departed prove Purgatory - because those in hell cannot profit from prayers, and those in heaven have no need of them. Hence, Purgatory.

The verse you cite itself shows Jesus "purged our sins". When did He do that? In Purgatory after His death. In Spirit He went to the prison of spirits that St. Peter speaks of in 3:18-19 and 4:6 and there He purged the sins of the departed, that they may "be judged by men in the flesh, but may live to God in the spirit". It really comes down to whether you believe the WHOLE BIBLE is INERRANT or not. We do, so we believe in Purgatory. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 22:42, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

I think you have problems with the English language in addition to the Word of God. Use a dictionary. See the difference between "for" and "to". RobSTrump 2Q2Q 22:49, 19 July 2020 (EDT)
Which is it? We're being "progressively cleansed" or Christ purged our sins at the cross? Your stammering makes less sense the more you go on. Please don't use the Dataclarifier technique of spamming the page for 5,000 bytes when caught in another non-scriptural assertion and nonsense. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 23:14, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

I want to be among those who receive a Reward from the Lord on that Day, just as God has said in 1 Cor 3:14. Some will not immediately receive a reward, but will have to go through fire. This is a Biblical fact. It's better to accept reality and deal with it rather than be in denial about it. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 22:54, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

Here's a dose of reality:
  • to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. - Romans 4:4
  • by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God - Ephesian 2:8
RobSTrump 2Q2Q 23:03, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

Anyone who wants to avoid Purgatory can make that Life Offering I mentioned on my homepage. It is easy to avoid Purgatory, if we acknolwedge it. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 22:58, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

Anyone who believes in purgatory has no faith in Jesus. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 23:03, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

It's obvious you think denial can get you out of Purgatory. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt, as they say. Purgatory is a Truth of Faith. If you don't believe it, you can never avoid it. St. Paul the Apostle clearly teaches you some are saved only through fire, but you stubbornly resist it. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 23:05, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

As you sow, so shall you reap. If you sow sparingly, you shal also reap sparingly. Read Rom 2:7 "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God NishantXavierFor Christ the King 23:07, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

You yourself said in this thread: the sacrificial death of Jesus is meaningless cause you still have to atone for your sins. Secondly, you despise the grace of God and think you can bargain with God for a reward or salvation. You have no faith in God or his Word, trading it for the doctrines of men. Anguish, tribulation, and wrath awaits you. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 23:20, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

Lol. It awaits you if you neglect good works, as the passage so clearly says. For myself, by Pascal's wager, I am surely saved either way. If Catholicism is true, by the Life Offering, I will avoid Purgatory. If Protestantism is true, by my faith in Jesus Christ the Lord, I will be saved and go straight to heaven. Lol. So I'm going to heaven either way. I encourage you to believe in Purgatory, so that you can be saved from going there!NishantXavierFor Christ the King 23:48, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

The Bible is straightforward and simple: Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You of course deny that love cause you have to pay for your own sins. No contorted reasoning and twisting of scripture, which you don't know and ignore anyway, changes God's word and promises. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 08:50, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

It is also written, "Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins." (1 Pet 4:8). Love for the Lord and for each other is the key to avoiding purgatory. These are the two great Commandments the Lord Himself taught. "27He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” 28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live.” (Luke 10:27-28). He also said, "If you love Me, keep My Commandments" (Jn 14:15). NishantXavierFor Christ the King 08:56, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

Yah, I got that. Love covers a multitude of sins, Christ died once for all, but yourself still have to be nailed to a cross in Purgatory. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 09:05, 20 July 2020 (EDT)


St. Peter speaks of sanctification post justification and its importance

2 Pet 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

See how St. Peter says "if ye do these things, ye shall never fall". That shows good works are necessary post justification for the soul's sanctification. Protestants have completely forgotten about sanctification. Without sanctification, the soul goes to Purgatory. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 23:45, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

You have no understanding what sanctification is. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 08:52, 20 July 2020 (EDT)
You have little or no understanding of justification; There is therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). What does it mean to be "in Christ"? You can't answer without cutting and pasting chunks of meaningless text from elsewhere. You ought to be able to answer from scripture. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 08:59, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

Five Church Fathers on Purgatory for those students interested in studying the subject historically

Imported from the article and my homepage.

(1)St. Basil the Great teaches: “I think that the noble athletes of God, who have wrestled all their lives with the invisible enemies, after they have escaped all of their persecutions and have come to the end of life, are examined by the prince of this world; and if they are found to have any wounds from their wrestling, any stains or effects of sin, they are detained. If, however they are found unwounded and without stain, they are, as unconquered, brought by Christ into their rest.” [1]

(2) St. Cyprian eloquently argues based on this prison, "It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory: it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord.” [2]

(3) St. Augustine persuasively states: “But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come.” [3]

(4) Pope St. Gregory, the Great Dialogist, answers in the affirmative, saying, “we must believe that before the day of judgment there is a Purgatory fire for certain small sins: because our Saviour saith, that he which speaketh blasphemy against the holy Ghost, that it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.66 Out of which sentence we learn, that some sins are forgiven in this world, and some other may be pardoned in the next: for that which is denied concerning one sin, is consequently understood to be granted touching some other. But yet this, as I said, we have not to believe but only concerning little and very small sins, as, for example, daily idle talk, immoderate laughter, negligence in the care of our family (which kind of offences scarce can they avoid, that know in what sort sin is to be shunned), ignorant errors in matters of no great weight: all which sins be punished after death, if men procured not pardon and remission for them in their lifetime” [4]

(5) St. John Chrysostom comments: “Let us weep for these; let us assist them according to our power; let us think of some assistance for them, small though it be, yet still let us assist them. How and in what way? By praying and entreating others to make prayers for them, by continually giving to the poor on their behalf.” [5]

[1] [Homilies on the Psalms 7:2]

[2] [Letter 51]

[3](City of God 21:13)

[4] Dialogues, Book 4, Chapter 39: Whether there be any Purgatory etc?

[5] [St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on Phillipians, 3.]

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Thanks Conservative. I added the format for "the other side" to respond on the bottom of the page below the main text. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 09:03, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

Love for God and Neighbor - the Two Great Commandments commanded by Christ - are the Key to avoiding Purgatory

As mentioned on One Peter Five, We must live a life of sacrifice for God and for others - and not for ourselves - if we hope to die in such fervent love of God and neighbor as to go straight to Heaven. Love covers a multitude of sins, the Bible says; and, the Saints say, in the evening of life, we will all be judged by our love. Let us strive to love Our Lord Jesus, and others, Christians especially, but all people generally, very much; especially to love and work for their eternal happiness, and then all will be well.

You're peeing up a rope. There is no purgatory. You're preaching the doctrine of anti-Christ. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 09:00, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

The Truth will set you free. There is a Purgatory. It is what St. Paul mentions in 1 Cor 3:13-15, "13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

Mat 5:24-26 "24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing."

1 Pet 3:18-20 "18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

What does fire have to do with your non-scriptural doctrine of Purgatory? No, wait, wait, don't bother answering with more extrapolation upon extrapolation. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 09:08, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

Fire has everything to do with Purgatory. Purgatory is the doctrine that some are saved through fire. Bad Christians are disciplined by the Lord; both in this life and the next. Good Christians are rewarded by the Lord. Both in this life and the next. Be a good Christian and all will be well. The going is tough only for those who choose to be bad Christians, i.e. who live in fornication, adultery, sodomy, blasphemy, perjury or some other habitual mortal sin, like cursing/swearing/using foul language etc. Bad Christians are disciplined out of love. Good Christians are rewarded by Love. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 09:26, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

Our Lord and St. Peter speaking of a Prison of Spirits from which souls go forth after they pay the last farthing is another Proof of Purgatory. Purgatory is essentially a temporary Prison of Spirits, from which souls are delivered by the prayers of the Church, especially the Sacrifice of the Mass. Have you read the Book of 2 Maccabees? In that work, several centuries before Christ's Incarnation, it is said that it is a holy and pious thought to pray for the departed, that they may be loosed from their sins. That verse is yet another clear Scriptural proof of Purgatorial fire. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 09:28, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

I added the format for "no" on the main page. Someone who wishes to argue that there isn't a Purgatory can do so over there. NishantXavierFor Christ the King 00:11, 24 July 2020 (EDT)

Purgatory denies the sacrificial atonement of Christ for the sins of the world

Nuff said. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 09:11, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

See what happens...

As soon as we put away the extra non-biblical stuff from a discussion with knowledgeable Roman Catholics and focus on scripture, the discussion stops dead. An Evangelist can actually get farther with a Catholic in Name Only.. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 13:36, 30 July 2020 (EDT)

Temporary page protect

This page in temporarily locked while I fix the mess Dataclarifier made of it. It shouldn't take the full hour. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 00:10, 1 August 2020 (EDT)

Protection removed. RobSTrump 2Q2Q 00:20, 1 August 2020 (EDT)

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